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Bill: Separate the Church and State

Details

Submitted by[?]: Justice League of Cildania

Status[?]: defeated

Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.

Voting deadline: December 2368

Description[?]:

Otherwise you start getting state churches or churchy states, and then boom, it's like the Godfather 3 around here.

Proposals

Debate

These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:

Date20:55:31, February 26, 2007 CET
From Divine Party of the Republic
ToDebating the Separate the Church and State
MessageWe can support the first. But believe that regulating the curriculum makes sense, it treats religious schools like any other. Teacher led prayer in public schools is not allowed, but in private religious schools should be, if you put in a clause stating that private schools may have the decision on prayer while public ones cannot, we would support that too. The second is a personal choice.

Date21:07:48, February 26, 2007 CET
From One Cildania Party
ToDebating the Separate the Church and State
MessageThis encroaches on personal freedoms and the OCP while a firm believer in separating the church and state I don't believe this trade-off is worth it. Also its separate, not seperate - remember to sep A RAT, that's what my girlfriend's mother just told me so I'd spell it right. It's a right gem that.

Date08:00:52, February 27, 2007 CET
From Justice League of Cildania
ToDebating the Separate the Church and State
MessageAh thank you. Spelling is not one of my many super powers.

Divine guys, why should private schools have more rights than public schools? You know if we just privatized the schools we wouldn't even have to have this argument.... hey now there's an idea!

Date14:36:38, February 27, 2007 CET
From Divine Party of the Republic
ToDebating the Separate the Church and State
MessageIt's an idea, but not one we'd support...

Date14:38:44, February 27, 2007 CET
From Divine Party of the Republic
ToDebating the Separate the Church and State
MessageAnd government institutions don't have rights, they are created by the government to serve a purpose, not to make decisions on whether they want to serve that purpose.

Date20:25:53, February 27, 2007 CET
From Justice League of Cildania
ToDebating the Separate the Church and State
MessageMore freedoms then, why do private schools have more freedoms than public schools? Are not gov. institutions made of groups of people, and don't people have rights? Shouldn't those rights extend to everything they do? Rights are unconditional, they're not rights otherwise, but more permission. It's not the government's role to give anyone permission! The government's purpose is to protect and serve the people, not the other way around.

Date16:18:25, February 28, 2007 CET
From Divine Party of the Republic
ToDebating the Separate the Church and State
MessageWe do not give freedoms to groups, individuals get freedoms. Groups are regulated under the law depending on what type of group they are, as individuals though, they still retain all their former rights. People in who run private schools can make a business decision about whether they allow or encourage teacher led prayer. So can the government in their schools, the decision has been that such schools should not have prayer due to the vastly multicultural nature of our nation (see immigration policy).

Date23:02:42, February 28, 2007 CET
From Justice League of Cildania
ToDebating the Separate the Church and State
MessageDon't people need freedom in principle to survive? Shouldn't freedom then be an inherent right of the people to be protected by their government? Something is very wrong when the government stops protecting freedom and starts giving it out to certain groups like a privilege.

Date00:15:17, March 01, 2007 CET
From Divine Party of the Republic
ToDebating the Separate the Church and State
MessageThe DPR would like to point out once again that PEOPLE have rights and freedoms, GROUPS of people don't. The difference, which is apparently too subtle for the Justice League, is that while individual rights are protected by law, groups of people, like school trustees are bound by RESPONSIBILITIES. If those school trustees happen to work for a public school board, one of those responsibilities is to adhere to the direction of the government with regards to school conduct, including teacher led prayer. If they disagree with those responsibilities, then it is their RIGHT to leave their position and find work elsewhere, it would also be their right to speak about why they are leaving. On the other hand, if those trustees work for a private organization, say the Muslim Association of Cildania, then they would have the RESPONSIBILITY to take direction from that body. Their rights are never infringed upon, they always have the choice to leave, and their students always have the right to go to a school where prayer is organized, but in a public system, it makes no sense due to multicultural classes.

Date06:08:08, March 03, 2007 CET
From Justice League of Cildania
ToDebating the Separate the Church and State
MessageGood retort, I understand and agree with you completely.

So then, what of the right of the taxpayer? If Joe Taxpayer disagrees with public school policy, does he have the right/choice to not pay for it? If no, then you've infringed on his rights. If yes, then public education is voluntarily funded just like every private education and the government is just another business (that can deny prayer as it wishes)

You can't have it both ways. Let the schools do as they wish or privatize the schools. I'll put it to vote then. Democracy or despotism, your choice.

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Voting

Vote Seats
yes
 

Total Seats: 136

no
  

Total Seats: 163

abstain
 

Total Seats: 126


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