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Bill: Budget proposal of March 2376

Details

Submitted by[?]: Jakanian Liberal Socialists

Status[?]: defeated

Votes: This bill proposes to change the allocation of funds in the budget. It requires more than half of the legislature to vote yes. This bill will pass as soon as the required yes votes are in, or will be defeated if unsufficient votes are reached on the deadline.

Voting deadline: November 2376

Description[?]:

The Jakanian Liberal Socialists propose to adjust the government's spending budget to better address the economic and social situation of the United Jakania.

Proposals

Debate

These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:

Date01:41:32, March 19, 2007 CET
From Jakanian Liberal Socialists
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageWith new taxes and government initiatives, we now need to allocate the means to fund what we're doing. This is our proposal. 18% of the budget to defence is still quite high (compared to relative RL ammounts), but it remains justified considering recent local events.

And it ensures that our post-delarian rebuilding may continue as planned.

No doubt our 1st Infantry Division will be happy with the steady funding the latest tax and budget proposals are allowing:
http://ljplus.ru/img3/e/x/extel2/070318_army.jpg

Date03:00:37, March 19, 2007 CET
From United Democrats of Jakania
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageTwo things:

1) Shortly a bill shall pass bringing in even more taxes.
2) Shouldnt this be handles by the finance minister?

Date14:14:19, March 19, 2007 CET
From Jakanian Liberal Socialists
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageThis takes the new taxes into account, which is why it appears to give a slight deficit against current income.

Date21:21:15, March 19, 2007 CET
From United Democrats of Jakania
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageActually I feel as though spending 30 billion JAK on defence is a waste of money when it could go towards something like Trade & Industry

Date22:28:28, March 19, 2007 CET
From Moderate Republican Party
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageWe support this general increase in spending and feel the money is equally allocated.

Date22:33:32, March 19, 2007 CET
From Moderate Republican Party
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageWill the L.D.P. please state why they voted against this proposal? They are the financial minister, and if they wish to see improvement over this nation's currently pathetic budget, then maybe they should take matters into their own hands.

Date22:41:38, March 19, 2007 CET
From Liberal Democratic Party
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageThat's exactly why we voted against this. We don't agree with the Defense Budget increase at all and we don't understand why the J.L.S. propose this when we are the Finance Minister. What's our party's appointment for in the position of Finance Minister if other parties do our job?

We were waiting for the marginal hike in taxes on corporations and non-essential goods to pass so we would have more leeway in our spending.

Date23:07:38, March 19, 2007 CET
From Moderate Republican Party
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageWhy doesn't the L.D.P. DO ITS JOB and formulate its own budget proposal????????

Date23:25:10, March 19, 2007 CET
From United Democrats of Jakania
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageHe just explained that he was waiting for the new tax proposal to pass so he would have greater funds to work with.

Did you not read the last line in his most recent message it says "We were waiting for the marginal hike in taxes on corporations and non-essential goods to pass so we would have more leeway in our spending."


Date00:43:48, March 20, 2007 CET
From Jakanian Liberal Socialists
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageA bureaucratic excuse for something inexcusable. The tax raises were not unpredictable, a budget bill could have been proposed as soon as the tax bill was certain to pass, and it needed to be. If the Finance Ministry will not, then there is no reason to stranglehold our country further to pleasure one party's quest for power. The finance minister may not have noticed, but our government isn't in the best financial position and sitting on their laurels until they feel comfortable will not benefit the country.

Nor will cutting the defence budget. But we are glad you asked the foreign minister, or the defence minister, of their opinions before giving your own on the defence budget. Wait, you didn't? Well, here it is: Solentia intends to invade Wantuni again. Not only that, but Deltaria will aid them this time. If you think either of them hold a good opinion of us, or if you think either of them is soley after Wantuni, and that now is a good time to cut a defence budget for an army we're still building, I'm afraid I don't trust you to make an informed opinion on the rest of the budget either.

Our opinion on the LDP has dropped markedly since the recent elections. Your deception of our voters to win power was disgusting, and do not think we have brushed your display of megalomania aside simply because we agree with the majority of your politics. It was criminal; no better than what the solentians attempted in Wantuni. It was worse, in fact. The solentians were populist, but at least they meant it. You promised the people things you never had any intention of giving. You don't deserive a place in the cabinet, you deserve a bill of condemnation and your party leaders a criminal trial.

You may have helped bring equality back to Jakania, but you lied and deceived the electorate to do it, and that earns no respect from us.

Do not mistakingly believe that we will think highly of either the LDP's membership's integrity or capacity to do its job without a display from them proving otherwise.

Date01:07:37, March 20, 2007 CET
From United Democrats of Jakania
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageWell first off, several years ago when the S.L.P and J.C.P were in power, the L.D.P brought up several budget proposals that were voted down. He is waiting for the bill to pass that will bring in the funds so he will not have to create a new proposals when the new ones pass, how is that "furthering to pleasure one party's quest for power" He never said he was going to cut the budget defense, but it is uneeded to raise it to high. He has years of experience with defence, and can probably pull the job better than you do. I dont think either of those countries will be stupid enough to go to full out war against Jakania, especially when no doubtly several other countries will go to the aid of Wantuni, second, one of the countries I went to before I came back to Jakania was Wantuni, they are spending a huge portion of there budget on defence, if an invasion from Deltaria and Solentia happens, with the aid they recieve from the other countries, they can hold out.

Second, he proposed those bills because he needed power to fix the country. What were they going to do, sit around and watch the country decline even farther into the country, it was needed to get the power to fix the country, it is a common tactic Particracy.

This message posted by you surprises and disgusts me that you wouldnt even do such a thing

Date01:09:11, March 20, 2007 CET
From United Democrats of Jakania
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageAlso it is personally believed that you are just jealous of the L.D.P's gain of power, and that you have rarely had such a thing

Date01:46:13, March 20, 2007 CET
From Liberal Democratic Party
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageIf you dare by any means to propose we were lazy to the point of extremity by putting off this spending you are insanely wrong. Your attacks on my party are not appreciated and are not thought of at all highly. You unnecessarily attack me for the most pitiful and disgusting reasons you could muster from your doomed bowels of political mayhem. Your attacks sink you to the lowest level possible earning you no respect and no more political respect than you attacked my party for. Two can play your game.

We have had enough of this madness and ludicracy. The pure direspect should shame your sickening party for its misdeeds. Using the budget to attack my party is utmost gut-wrenching like your politics. What do you think we were doing by proposing the income tax and the hike in corporation and non-essential goods taxes? We were sitting around doing nothing, yes that's right. Wait a minute....hmmm....we proposed them to build up the surplus! Wow, never thought of that seeing how we're the Finance Minister. Wait we recall proposing a series of budget reforms that included the national budget, the income taxes, and corporation and non-essential goods taxes. But wait, those don't count because you don't want them to. Ok, we understand. Wait a minute...what about the bills just finished voting? Ah, those don't count either I guess.

We are glad you asked the Finance Minister about changing the national fiscal situation...oh wait you never did. Oh yes and your pathetic response saying we never asked the Defense or Foreign Ministers about their advice doesn't come into play seeing how we were never given the chance to. Hypocrisy first hand, but what can we expect from this party we counter. If you deem my party foolish to the point of ridiculousness about the safety of the budget then you might as weel say that of yourself seeing how you've voted for every one of our legislations regarding the budget of our nation. Your disgusting hypocrisy will not go unnoticed from us for now on like you showed us in the beginning of this nation when it was only the Founders of Modern Jakania in legislative action. We should have known.

If you think we were foolish enough to let the anarchists rule this nation and rob this nation of everything the anti-fascist parties had done to set Jakania straight then you are no more intelligent then we thought. We play this game for fun and only fun. If flip flopping our ideologies for the sake of being able to actually have a voice without being dispensed of and disregarded is what you have a problem with then no wonder you sat through the totalitarian regimes doing absolutely nothing. In Particracy, it has become clearly evident that parties that actually roleplay to the point of extremity and excessive stupidity will never be a power in their nation for evident problems that your party suggests to the maximum. We decided to win seats unlike your idiotic foolishness undying to the last. And while we would like to think that it works that way, it is evident in a game like Particracy it will never be. Attack my party all you want, you obviously support the former anarchist majority. Quite clearly, my party was dead tired of being suppressed by the anarchists in any way with their annoying rant and babbling. I began to hate this game when they came and you are certainly amplifying that. It is obviously your own fault and own disgusting politics that you didn't do the people a favor by leading them down a path that we promised to make a u-turn on by ending the anarchists who don't give a care in any way or sort about the people.

Attack me so? You lower your already dispicable self down deeper and deeper. The mere thought that you attacked my party, the party that has pushed for changes and new policies in this nation is gut-wrenching to the extreme, like the hellish politics you encompass in relations towards other parties. And we will stoop to your level because we aren't going to be opressed by your slap on the wrist for us when we are doing the right thing that you evidently don't understand. We see the logic is far gone from your party, has even been lost past the depths we dare not speak of in your party ideologies. And, we are sorry we have your party ideologies and share them with you because if your party was the true symbolic form of liberal-socialism we would immediately convert to aggressive capitalist-conservative. And it is your party that deserves to be tried for their wrongdoings because you let the people wallow in their misery in government for years and years and did nothing about it for the sake of your party ideologies. What's worth more? The people's happiness and lives or your self pride? The latter it would appear. Your self pride has interfered with your ability to show care and responsibility for the people to maintain your own safety. It's your fault that you didn't switch ideologies to save your nation from the fascist rule my party had to break the nation from. Without the U.D.J. and M.R.P. you'd be in the pathetic and miserly position you once were in today.

How can my party support a party that attacks the party of fiscal responsibility of Jakania? How can we equally see to the J.L.S. as our foreign minister and internal minister if they can't work with my party on one issue and have shown their explosive nature. And, now we'll show you ours. How do we expect you to work together and settle disputes with foreign nations if you can't with my party? You can't and we will believe that after your vicious and acidic attacks on our party because we merely said why we opposed this bill. And we were right and we'll defend that until we can beat it into your nonsensical and illogical minds that you won't breach besides your delusional and gutwrenching attacks.

You lied to my party on your accountability we once trusted you with. You can't be trusted to keep parties together, you are a divider and nothing better. And while you claimed we lied to the electorate, at least we made changes with our lies unlike your party which sat around for nearly 48 years doing nothing but letting the fascists destroy Jakania. We did something and it turned out to be the betterment of the nation and its people while you couldn't do either. You should be ashamed of your hypocrative attacks.

We cannot regard you as anything better than the fascists that once ruled this nation with an iron grip. You do not deserve to have seats in the Supreme Council for your crimes and your disrespect. We are tired of this and aren't giving up. We've skirmished with your party before and we put feelings aside and rebuilt our relations but you voluntarily broke those by writing what you did and we'll do the same. We will oppose you until we can see a better more sensical party emerge if that is any where near plausible and or possible. Until then you may sink even lower than you have if you can. Your party is the party that promises to build a bridge when there is no river. Until you can prove that you are anywhere near remotely a better party and diplomat we will continue to uphold your party high in the area of tyranny and disgust: at least you're held high in one area. We await actions proving such if they are possible.

Date02:17:39, March 20, 2007 CET
From United Reformation Party
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageWhile we disapprove of this battle between two experienced parties in our nation, we would say we are very suprised by the J.L.S.' vicious and unneeded attacks. The J.L.S.' attacks shows that they are willing to undermine the unity in the Supreme Council created by other parties for their own ego's sake. We are disappointed in them and figured they were more politically correct and more of a gentlemen. But, we have been proven wrong in the past before so we should have expected such from them.

We would expect two parties of perhaps the most character in the Supreme Council to be the ones trying to help other parties resolve their differences but once again we're proven wrong. While we do not support the L.D.P.'s retaliation, we believe they would not have done such had it not been J.L.S. who provoked them into this fight. Once again, we are disappointed in the J.L.S.

Date11:47:28, March 20, 2007 CET
From Jakanian Liberal Socialists
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageYou call us fascist? We find the irony in this amusing. Has it ever crossed your mind that people do not vote for you because they do not want your policies? Evidently so, when you acknowledge you only win votes by lying to the people about what you intend to achieve. That isn't democracy, those are the actions of a tyrant. Someone who holds power at any cost.

If the people wanted what you were offering, maybe you would be saving Jakania from "anarchists", but the people do not want this. That is why they do not vote for you. The "anarchists" are voted in freely. The people want what they offer. You are saving no one, you are only forcing upon the people that what they don't want.

The JLS may be at odds with the politics of the JCP and the SLP, but at least they represent their voters. They do their job. As we will. We will represent our voters, whether that brings us a majority or not.

We hold respect for the JPJ as they have significantly increased their popularity without resorting to such methods. They stick to their principles and receive public support accordingly. A clear example that one need not be a dishonest thief to gain votes in an election.

We also resent the LDP's labelling of yourself as a "Founder of Modern Jakania". The JLS was the only party that stayed throughout the Deltarian occupation, for decades, despite the parliament being non-functional, fighting for the nation's freedom. Only after we had convinced the islamics to drop the treaties binding our nation's democracy, did your party join. You seem to believe you are a hero, when really you are no more than an opportunist. You appear from Cildania as soon as the walls come down and claim credit for being any more than just a spectator.

To the UDJ and JPJ: We do not doubt your integrity, so do not get involved. Regardless of your relations with the LDP, his crimes must be recognised. One can not lie to the voters to gain power. This is the first step to dictatorship. Surely you understand that democracy can not function even in theory if politicians are willing to promise one thing and deliver something completely different?

To the UDJ: You need only research the nation's election history to see we have held the HoS position many times in Jakania's past, more than any other party. Long enough to possess the understanding that power comes and goes, but does neither permanently. If jealousy was the actual cause, no doubt we would be emulating the LDP's criminal actions.

We may wish to cooperate, but there are limits, and the latest actions of the LDP are those limits. The LDP must renounce what they have done.

(OOC: And, I don't mind roleplaying with you guys, but if it starts to look like people are throwing OOC insults, such as in paragraph 4 of G Bieler's post, I'm gonna have to ask the mods to step in and take a look.)

Date21:38:29, March 20, 2007 CET
From United Reformation Party
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageWe won't step down because this is a matter that you bring us into. If you fight against the L.D.P., you fight against this party. We have strong ties. You are most certainly wrong to accuse the L.D.P. of what they've done. We benefitted from what the L.D.P. did and we won't deny that because it's the truth and nothing but.

Now, as for the L.D.P., we agree with the J.L.S. that your latest post was rather vicious. We didn't believe you would stoop to that level, but apparently we were wrong. However it seems we were wrong about both parties.

The J.L.S.' response to the L.D.P. makes us even more determined to stop this now. You break the balance that hangs in the Supreme Council and as a result you destroy Jakania's politics. What you two have been doing is making me sick. You two parties are essential to the nation, being some of the most experienced players we have. We know from personal knowledge that the L.D.P. has risen to power in many nations and led them. We understand the J.L.S. have a long history in Jakania. But it would still seem that both of you aren't wise enough to stop throwing mud.

Both of you are mud slinging - don't deny it. It started with the J.L.S. for some explosive reason and then the L.D.P. foolishly returned fire. Had the J.L.S. not even posted their message in the first place (which we don't think was at all necessary and was very immature), the L.D.P. wouldn't have responded. Had the L.D.P. not responded and made things worse (which we see as very unwise and foolish of them) this wouldn't be the big battle it is. Throw down your political egoes, both of you. Stop this now for the sake of the country.

Both of you are at fault and you should know this. To the L.D.P.: Your acidic attacks you quote yourself were highly unneeded. You could have tried to clear this up but decided to throw a puch as well. We are disappointed in you. We are stunned in the most that you would even participate in this. Don't speak of the J.L.S. when you weren't in the nation at that time.

To the J.L.S.: You are in no place to speak of what the L.D.P. did. You have furthered this battle by wagering your own retaliation to strike back. As for the Founders of Modern Jakania, it is a widely known and understand fact that without the L.D.P.'s move to the nation, this nation would be under the fascists in most probability. Because your party alone couldn't do it and that's the sole reason - you needed the M.R.P. and U.D.J. to help with the L.D.P. to pull yourself up. Anyone who knows anything about Particracy realizes this. Without the L.D.P.'s Radical Amendments (even if they weren't the right thing to do), I wouldn't have my power nor would he. And, while we understand what you're saying about perhaps the voters wanted anarchists, that's why this is a game. Any sensical people wouldn't want anarchists ruling government because anarchists are AGAINST the government and its forms. Particracy isn't perfect and this is a great example of why so.

Put aside your differences. We are ashamed that this happens and do not think highly of either force. However, we particularly are upset by the J.L.S.' latest response and saw that as a brutal attack. Hopefully the L.D.P. won't make that mistake. If either of you continue this, we will oppose you and hopefully the other parties will go along with us. Meaning we won't cooperate unless you two will do as such.

Date21:49:53, March 20, 2007 CET
From Liberal Democratic Party
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageWe normally would try to put this aside and end our differences, but this situation has breached that.

We will not "renounce" what we've said because this wouldn't have happened had the J.L.S. not attacked our party. We admit our response was vicious, but we're tired of this and are finished putting up with this. In every country the L.D.P. has acheived political engagement in combat with another party, we are always the one to apologize and try and reconcile. Never has the other party reconciled or tried. We have always been forced for the blame. We're not doing it again on our own.

We'll offer no more words for we do not wish to further this. We realize our wrong doings but will not renounce our faults unless the opposition party clearly acknowledges they are in the same state as us. Meaning, we will not renounce what we've said unless the J.L.S. renounce what they've stated. If they refuse to, we can see how long this political embargo will last though we will still resume our normal measures and duties.

Date01:20:48, March 21, 2007 CET
From Jakanian Liberal Socialists
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageWe apologise for the tone of our statement. The JPJ is right in their assertion that our New Republic is still quite fragile and requires cooperation to succeed and rebuild; our nation has enough external enemies without creating internal ones.

But our party leaders are still concerned for the integrity of democracy in our nation and hope that such practices do not take place again.

Date01:29:25, March 21, 2007 CET
From Liberal Democratic Party
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageTherefore, we announce that we have made a dire mistake. We hold the J.L.S. as an ally, and have for the most part seen it as that way. Our response was in the heat of the moment. We apologise for any misconduct and hope that our two parties are never brought to this skirmish again.

Date22:43:39, March 21, 2007 CET
From United Democrats of Jakania
ToDebating the Budget proposal of March 2376
MessageI to apologize to you for any offense I might of caused you, and hope as well we can get past this and never do it again.

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