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Bill: The National Anthem Bill
Details
Submitted by[?]: Chinkopodian Economic Democrats
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: August 2089
Description[?]:
| In an opinion poll this month as to whether or not the national anthem should be sung in schools, an overwhelming majority of people voted that the anthem should be sung at the commencement of school each day - a majority of over 50%. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Singing the national anthem in schools.
Old value:: Children are never made to sing the national anthem.
Current: Children are made to sing the national anthem at the commencement of school each day.
Proposed: Children are made to sing the national anthem at the commencement of school each day.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 12:04:36, July 31, 2005 CET | From | Chinkopodian Economic Democrats | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | I don't like it that much either, but we must uphold our reputation as a democratic community. |
| Date | 14:13:04, July 31, 2005 CET | From | Social Democratic Party of Darnussia | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | The people don't know what is good for them! |
| Date | 14:21:32, July 31, 2005 CET | From | Chinkopodian Economic Democrats | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | You say that, and I would be inclined to agree, but refusing popular opinion is hardly democratic. You said on the other bill that the proposal was too authoritarian, but the very refusal of these is pushing us closer and closer to that very position. It's a dilema. |
| Date | 17:43:21, July 31, 2005 CET | From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | i agree with CED, its just that i think its wrong :D morally speaking. |
| Date | 17:44:42, July 31, 2005 CET | From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | like forcing patrotism on the people (thats what i mean), maybe more then 50% is (more or less logically) patriotic, this patriotism should not be forced on the rest... |
| Date | 19:53:13, July 31, 2005 CET | From | Chinkopodian Economic Democrats | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | Well, that's akin to saying that we shouldn't, say, enforce compulsorary ID cards even if most people want them. (I've forgotten the populace's standing on this, I'm just bringing this forwards as a situation) |
| Date | 20:09:10, July 31, 2005 CET | From | Chinkopodian Economic Democrats | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | In fact, that's a really good example. "Percentage Choice 19.04% All citizens are issued with identity cards but are not required to carry them. 43.42% All citizens are issued with identity cards and are required to carry them at all times. 21.57% Citizens are not issued with identity cards. 15.97% Citizens are issued with identity cards on a voluntary basis. ooooooooh... again! the people want to be oppresed by a little plastic paper! " This was a [fairly old] opinion poll that you posted on the national messageboard. [and it wasn't even a majority!] However, the fact that you posted this makes your response to this bill quite ironic. For if a majority of the populace is in favour of ID cards, passing that ID card bill would be forcing ID cards and a loss of privacy on those who don't want them! :o Well, that means we obviously can't give anyone compulsorary ID cards! |
| Date | 21:43:37, July 31, 2005 CET | From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | thats beceause i agreed with it. And still how are you oppresed by a plastic paper, but you are directly oppresed by being FORCED to sing the national anthem being forced to wear a plastic paper is nothing to bother about... |
| Date | 04:16:11, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Social Libertarian party | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | Opinion doesn't really matter, we stand for what we stand for and the people elect us, if the partys worry about appealing to votes it becomes some centrist bull. |
| Date | 05:50:27, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Social Democratic Party | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | We'll be glad to abide by our citizens and what they want. |
| Date | 12:13:53, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Chinkopodian Economic Democrats | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | "thats beceause i agreed with it. And still how are you oppresed by a plastic paper, but you are directly oppresed by being FORCED to sing the national anthem being forced to wear a plastic paper is nothing to bother about..." Well of course. Hypocrisy? Being forced to wear a piece of plastic is just as bad as being forced to sing a song. "Opinion doesn't really matter, we stand for what we stand for and the people elect us, if the partys worry about appealing to votes it becomes some centrist bull." I'm not going to be placing all of my bills on public opinion, far from it, and still remain strong to my ideology. But anyway, have you ever thought that the people HAVE to vote for us? I should imagine that a party which shares the nation's opinion would get more votes, however all parties at the moment stick to their ideology so firmly that they don't care about the views of the very people whose views they should be taking in. The people elect us because there's no alternative. Are you trying to say that we shouldn't notice public opinion and govern in a way the people don't like, as 'opinion doesn't really matter' and that partys shouldn't do anything in favour of public opinion? I can tell you really care about your citizens. |
| Date | 13:03:42, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | 1. being forced to sing a song every morning takes much more time and FEELS far more oppresive then being forced to wear a plastic card. 2. i follow the will of the people a lot but not in strange laws like these... |
| Date | 13:05:48, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | but if you do want to follow public opinions that badly you should not have voted against state-farms... |
| Date | 13:12:00, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Chinkopodian Economic Democrats | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | '1. being forced to sing a song every morning takes much more time and FEELS far more oppresive then being forced to wear a plastic card. 2. i follow the will of the people a lot but not in strange laws like these...' That's only your opinion, I know a lot of people would beg to differ. 'but if you do want to follow public opinions that badly you should not have voted against state-farms...' Who said I do? I'm only really thinking of change through public opinion if the majority is over 50%, and even then I'm still sticking to my ideology for the most part. I mean, making people sing a song in the morning at their request is a lot better than damaging our economy because a small majority wants everything state-owned. Also, some people don't understand the intricacies of capitalism or socialism, but I should imagine everyone understands what it means to sing a song. |
| Date | 13:26:31, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | 1. the ID card is for your and the national safety, singing the national anthem is... useless... 2. small majority of the parliament but not the people. And the economy is not damaged when you look at the most communist voting province they are very developed! (Clenon) |
| Date | 13:30:18, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | about the people dont know the difference between capitalism and socialism part: most socialists and communists have over-thought they're ideology more then capitalists... so if a majority wants socialism it's even better! With some capitalist exceptions. (really true looking at the former Soviet Union while the capitalist newspapers started protesting beceause the price of paper was raised by the government with 300% beceause that comes closer to the actual costs of paper, and the capitalist papers protested beceause they couldn't upkeep they're newspaper anymore they went bankrupt! long live capitalism :P thats the free market...) |
| Date | 19:38:04, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Chinkopodian Economic Democrats | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | "1. the ID card is for your and the national safety, singing the national anthem is... useless... 2. small majority of the parliament but not the people. And the economy is not damaged when you look at the most communist voting province they are very developed! (Clenon)" 1. So what's the harm in singing it? 2. What was the public opinion on state-owned farms? Was it over 50%? (I may be wrong)....also, who the populace votes for is nothing to do with how well-developed they are, and am I not right in saying that those figures are from unprecedented sources? [OOC: they are random, non-random ones will be implemented soon] "about the people dont know the difference between capitalism and socialism part: most socialists and communists have over-thought they're ideology more then capitalists... so if a majority wants socialism it's even better! With some capitalist exceptions. (really true looking at the former Soviet Union while the capitalist newspapers started protesting beceause the price of paper was raised by the government with 300% beceause that comes closer to the actual costs of paper, and the capitalist papers protested beceause they couldn't upkeep they're newspaper anymore they went bankrupt! long live capitalism :P thats the free market...)" Oh yes, that's a really well-based fact. Because the fact that most socialists and communists have over-thought their ideology more than capitalists is SO true and actually has a scrap of evidence supporting it! What was the actual price once raised, I would be interested to know if that is true. |
| Date | 21:04:32, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Social Libertarian party | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | It's annoying as hell having to pledge allegence to some fucking flag, a flag that stands for opression and corruption, some people see it differently, I don't so I feel no reason to serenade a fucking peice of cloth. |
| Date | 21:15:29, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Chinkopodian Economic Democrats | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | Who's pledging alliegance to a flag now? |
| Date | 23:04:22, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the The National Anthem Bill |
| Message | 1. the harm in singing it is that you are (as the same reason most of us are opposed to religious schooling) brainwashing. Children are very vulnerable for patriotism and that kind of crap thats not easy to get out of it, patrotism can get very dangerous! 2. i dont know the exact numbers, but as far as i can remember a majority wanted state-farms. I dont say it has anything to do with how developed they are, i just say someone who's socialist or communist has really thought it over.Therefore if a majority wants something socialist it proves that they at least thought it over. It's not crap evidence, this really is not the only evidence. just look a little around and when you see a debate between a communist/socialist and a capitalist, look who knows most... (although... you probably wont find such debat living in McCarthy country...) |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes | Total Seats: 193 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 542 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 15 |
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