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Bill: IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal
Details
Submitted by[?]: Cooperative Commonwealth Federation
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill presents the formation of a cabinet. It requires more than half of the legislature to vote yes. Traditionally, parties in the proposal vote yes, others (the opposition) vote no. This bill will pass as soon as the required yes votes are in and all parties in the proposal have voted yes, or will be defeated if unsufficient votes are reached on the deadline.
Voting deadline: June 2089
Description[?]:
| The minister of defense is placing the security of Lodamun in danger. His saber-rattling in the Baltusian legislature at a time when restraint is needed threaten to provoke a border incident. A brief sumamry of events: 1. General Fel introduced a motion that saw Lodamun "reserves the right" to build chemical weapons. 2. Green Advantage brought this law, once it passed, to international attention and requested diplomatic pressure. 3. The Praetor of Baltusia introduced a motion in the Baltusian senate to make a defensive troop deployment along our border until we agreed to renounce chemical weapons (along with more restrained measures). 4. The minister of defense, General Fel, threatened to respond in force, even informing the Baltusians that Lodamun might decide to manufacture chemical weapons. This was in direct contravention to his promise to Lodamun's parliament that we would not manufacture chemical weapons, and suggests that he may have been lying to parliament. 5. At a time when the Baltusian senate had not yet decided its course of action, this convinced several Baltusian parties that Lodamun meant war. Attempts by Green Advantage to convince the Baltusians not to take any military measures came too late to undo the damage done by General Fel's saber-rattling. 6. In an emergency election in whioch the issue of chemical weapons figured largely, the people of Lodamun clearly expressed their desire for the government to renounce chemical weapons. A law to this effect will shortly pass Lodamun's parliament. 7. Even after this fact, General Fel has once again made war-like declarations in the Baltusian Senate. The Baltusian debate is at http://82.238.75.178:8085/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=11526 Green Advantage favours the right to free speech, and does not beleive in the concept of "treason." However, General Fel is putting the nation's security in danger. He may say what he wishes, but he should no longer be allowed to speak in the name of the govenrment of Lodamun. We call on him to resign immediately and hand the defense ministry to someone who will not undermine the conduct of foreign policy. If he will not resign, we ask that parliament impeach him. This cabinet proposal is identical to the previous cabinet, except it transfers responsibility for defense to the Amystian Council, which is not likely to do much damage there. TIC is compensated with the justice ministry. This proposal is for a cabinet to handle duties until the return of CNTAFL members from their caucus retreat, when the issue of cabinet will be revisited. |
Proposals
Article 1
As per the Constitution, the President of the Commonwealth chairs the cabinet.
Article 2
The responsibilites of Science and Technology will be conducted by the 
Tuesday Is Coming
Article 3
The responsibilites of Foreign Affairs will be conducted by the Lodamun Centre-Left Coalition
Article 4
The responsibilites of Internal Affairs will be conducted by the Adam Smith Party
Article 5
The responsibilites of Finance will be conducted by the Adam Smith Party
Article 6
The responsibilites of Defence will be conducted by the Chorus of Amyst
Article 7
The responsibilites of Justice will be conducted by the Tuesday Is Coming
Article 8
The responsibilites of Infrastructure and Transport will be conducted by the Adam Smith Party
Article 9
The responsibilites of Health and Social Services will be conducted by the Tuesday Is Coming
Article 10
The responsibilites of Education and Culture will be conducted by the Adam Smith Party
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 16:01:11, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | We would prefer a more active party as the Foreign Minister. If this position had been more on top of the situation, then perhaps there would have been no need for the Defense minister to adopt what was the correct position. It is not our opinion, having participated in the debate in the Baltusian Senate that Julius Fel did anything wrong. As a minister for defense they reacted correctly and firmly to an overt and unnecessary threat to our nation. It is also to be noted that this threat arose purely due to the thoughtless and ill considered press release made by an environmental action group. The political party associated with this group has not yet done anything like enough to distance itself from that unfortunate and badly judged statement, nor has it made any serious attempt to undo the damage caused by its radical associates. The Baltusian senate was not influenced towards an aggressive stance by the statements of our minister for defence. It was influenced towards this stance by the explicit invitation to do so by this press release. As such given that we do not support this proposed cabinet structure, nor the movement to impeach a good and honest representative of the nation, we must oppose this bill. |
| Date | 16:45:55, August 01, 2005 CET | From | National Party of Baltusia | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | Shindo Akesia (Defence ministry, Baltusia)- Until 'General Fel' calls off his dogs, our defensive forces will remain on the border, regardless of weapons. Removing Fel is the last step towards peace between our peoples. |
| Date | 16:55:10, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | To Shindo Akesia Sir, you overstep your limits. It is not your place to address an internal matter such as this. General Fel was responding to your blatant aggresssion as has been clearly documented in this debate. He was doing his job. We will not bow to such attempts at intimidation. Additionally it is clear that you are now intending to go back on your word, given that the following ststement has been made in our parliament. Date 13:07:37, August 01, 2005 CET From Independant Socialist Party To Debating the chemical weapons ban Message We commend the Green Advantage party for this act. As promised, the troops ready for mobilization on the Baltusia/Lodanum border will not be called to move into place. This is a step forward for peaceful co-existence between our peoples. Now which of your two statements do you intend to make true as they are contradictory. Are you trying to cause tension between our two nations? |
| Date | 17:06:34, August 01, 2005 CET | From | National Party of Baltusia | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | ASP - From the office of the Praetor, Patrick Rivella Consider this a final statement on our course of action. Originally, the pan was to recall all forces when the weapons problem was resolved. However, I have spoken with Shindo Akesia and we have come to a decision the problem lies in 'General Fel', and until he loses power in the cabinet we shall not recall the forces. This is our final decision. |
| Date | 17:32:18, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | You overstep your limits. We will decide ourselves. Should we call for your impeachment internationally for meddling in the internal politics of another nation? At the moment we are disposed to do this. |
| Date | 17:45:24, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | Sabre rattling Baltusian style is acceptable though is it GA? |
| Date | 18:45:03, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | Despite behind the scene negotiations, it appears that the GA has double standards regarding "sabre rattling" Witness:- ASP:- Would you please attempt to undo the damage you have caused with Baltusia. They do not have the right to opine in our cabinet formation, and your thoughtlessness and arrogance in trying to blame another for your action are leading us closer and closer to war. Well Done! Green Advantage: disagree entirely with your premise. however, i have been in touch with the Baltusian head of state and established cordial relations and the prospect of future cooperation. If TIC is removed from defense, then we have peace. After all TIC interfered in their debates first. Either we both are silent in each other's debates, or we can both speak in each other's debates. You can't have it both ways. Adam Smith Party: The Baltusians are attempting to use military force to make us do something. That I do not accept, nor should you. Green Advantage: it is something that the Lodamun people want to do. if we act contrary to the will of the people, merely because Baltusia is massing arms against us, then we shall have allowed the threat of foreign force to change our policy. once again, i am doing all i can to undo the damage with Baltusia. General Fel keeps inflic Adam Smith Party: General Fel has not inflicted any damage at any time. The Will of the people regarding General Fel has not been tested. What was tested was their support for chemical weapons only. We do find it utterly despicable that you accuse our minister of defence of warmongering for stating that we are willing to defend ourselves, but so blithely accept an ultimatum backed by military aggression against our sovereignty by another nation. I have called you a traitor once, which you dissembled from sufficiently for me to retract this, but continue this way and you are really being a traitor, with no escape clause. Now either denounce the Baltusian aggression, or have this entire exchange publicised. Green Advantage: it is a great shame that you are prioritizing your own ego over the interests of the state, Mr. President-Councillor. the Greens have made a number of confidence-building suggestions privately to the Baltusian government. This is far more useful and effective than the course of action you suggest. We will not "denounce" a state that we want peace with: that would raise tnesions at a time when they need to be lowered. Instead we will try to achieve peace with them. This is easily done, and wold have been done already if our defense minister had not charged into the Baltusian senate, shrieking about building chemical arms. had he stayed silent, we would already have peace. please feel free to publish this exchange. If you do not, we may publish it ourselves. Adam Smith Party: There is no ego involved here. There is simply the matter of double standards being displayed by yourselves. A statement of willingness to defend our nation is wrong, but an implied military threat if we do not change our cabinet is acceptable. Denouncing a state that is implying this threat is not denouncing a peaceful neighbour. If they were peaceful, they would not be making implicit threats. As to the shrieking, we are all clear as to who shrieked. The GA. Julius Fel simply reaffirmed our nations willingness to defend itself. No statement that can be interpreted, even very loosely as being aggressive, was ever made by our minister of Defence. The statements he made were simply clear statements of resolve to defend our nation, as he was elected to do. Now we demand that the GA denounce the military threat presented by the trop build up on our borders. Of course the Baltusians may do as they wish with regard to their trops in their own naton, but to accuse your own colleague of sabre rattling for making a clear defensive statement, but to refuse to denounce an implicit military threat by a foreign force shows that the GA has its proiorities elsewhere, and not with the nation of Lodamun. May we remind the people of this nation that the controlling influence behind the GA originated outside of Lodamun. (Evidence:- (Date 22:37:47, July 24, 2005 CET From Green Advantage To Independent Republic of Lodamun Message Hi all. I've decided to swap parties with my roomie, who is changing this party into a more purely Green party: ecocapitalist in some ways, ecosocialist in others, as i understand it. It's been fun for the most part, and i've enjoyed debating with y'all. The CCF was modelled on a Canadian political party which moved from socialist to social democrat and compromised to gain power. I guess it was modelled more on "power corrupting" than anything else. As for ASP's question, I'd call myself more anarchist than anything, or libertarian socialist to use CNT's terminology. I'd prefer there to be no government, and regard it as a necessary evil to check corporate rule, since sadly we don't live in Adam Smith's world of small merchants and producers. We live in a world of giant conglomerates that operate without democratic control and get bigger by the day, and so unfortunately we need government to act as a check against them. In the meantime, sow the seeds of the new society within the shell of the old, as the anarchists used to say. Be well, everyone. -- the CCF's former player, now the player behind the Catholic Workers movement in Beluzia)) As such we question their commitment and dedication to our nation, AGAIN |
| Date | 19:30:09, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | General Fel simply believes in defending the country. If a defense minister is appointed that opposes this, we are unsure as to what they believe their job to be. |
| Date | 19:59:00, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | Do not vote people into the cabinet who do not want the position. It would force a new election (again) |
| Date | 20:02:02, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | We feel that it is the minister of defense's duty to defend the citizens. Any minister of defense who would have sat idly by while Baltusia masses troops on our borders would be subjected to a review by us. Warning Baltusia of our response to their action should have caused them to stand down if they truly wanted peace. That they did not is evidence of the fact that we cannot trust them. |
| Date | 20:31:24, August 01, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | We hope that some kind of agreement can be reached betwen our two nations. We have a long history of peace, and we should be co-operating in dealing with the very much more real threat presented by Kalistan. Would it be possible for Julius Fel, the defense minister for Lodamun, and Shindo Akesia, the defense minister for Baltusia, to agree to mutually stand down the military alert level between the two nations. We do not want war with Batusia, and we strongly believe that Baltusia does not want war with us. Charles Fox |
| Date | 20:36:19, August 01, 2005 CET | From | National Party of Baltusia | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | As a sign of peace, the Baltusian military forces have stood down, as explained to your country as a whole. |
| Date | 01:23:57, August 02, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | With the Baltusian MIlitary's withdrawal from their Lodamun border, the Divisions of the Army of Lodamun that had assembled to confront this threat were immediately withdrawn. Those forces active in Kregon due to this situation were recalled by their field officers immediately after the threat was removed, according to their orders from Port Andalay. As a representative of the Lodamun military, as well as my party and nation, I would like to thank the actions of Charles Fox in persuading the Baltusian command to recall their forces. As the case has been so far, we have never actually possessed any chemical or biological weapons, though for a time we reserved the right to do so. I would say on behalf of the Lodamun armed forces that we are greatful there was no need to use them in this situation. Personally I commend the brave men and women of uniform that were available when their country needed them. All of Lodamun owes them a debt for their willingness to surrender their lives, should it be necessary. As the original mobilization orders were conditional upon Baltusian activities, all forces began a complete withdrawal as soon as it was apparent the crisis was over. We hope that Kregon, or any other state of Lodamun, will not be threatened in this way in the future. It has been an honor and a privilege to serve my country through this troubling time. General Julius Fel |
| Date | 01:26:19, August 02, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | The Praetor's recent messages may have overtaken this, but for the record he has asked me to pass along the following message to parliament: "I, the Praetor of Baltusia, in co-ordination with the Defence Ministry, declare that all troops currently deployed on the border in the Lindar Valley and Terrarooka regions of the republic shall maintain at all times a 10-Mile distance from the border unless otherwise ordered from an exectutive level. Unfortunately, the Foreign ministry to currently out of action, so I must take over its responsiblities. (Inactive party)" |
| Date | 01:34:58, August 02, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | We would approve such a buffer zone. There would of course still be (customs not military) border patrols and policing in the area concerned and we would expect similar activity on the Baltusian side of the border. Bishop Butler, the interior minister issued an assurance to parliament today that the region is calm and safe. There are normal levels of police activity, which we are looking at ways of making more efective, and border traffic is slowly beginning to return to normal levels. The local economy has been slightly damaged by these tensions, but the worst of the effects were offset by our soldiers spending in the region. |
| Date | 01:38:17, August 02, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | this one is out of character: me, the player, is from outside Lodamun. So are all the players. Lodamun is fictional. Green Advantage is a new political party composed of ecological activists from throughout Lodamun. Please stay in character and drop the references to being from out of the country. |
| Date | 02:07:44, August 02, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | (OOC - Yes we are all from out of Lodamun, ie. in the real world - however all but yourself had to start from scratch here. You were handed a number of seats in our parliament and an influence in the affairs of nation that you had not developped in the game with. Thus in a very real sense, even in character, the Green Advantage is not seen as truly being a Lodamun run party yet. It is a little like the Glazer Family taking over Manchester Unitied, The team is still part of the premiership, but how they will act is an unknown factor. The references to the GA being controlled by influences from outside of Lodamun were in character and justifiable) |
| Date | 02:28:55, August 02, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | OOC: sure, make whatever accusations you want. just don't use OOC messages from another player (former CCF) to prove an IC point. |
| Date | 02:46:38, August 02, 2005 CET | From | Adam Smith Party | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | OOC: It was not to prove a point. It was to explain what I was referring to. |
| Date | 08:46:10, August 02, 2005 CET | From | National People's Gang | To | Debating the IMPEACH JULIUS FEL! Caretaker cabinet proposal |
| Message | It's nonsense is what it is. /IC /OOC |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes |
Total Seats: 174 | |||
| no |
Total Seats: 188 | |||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 88 |
| Random fact: Players have a responsibility to make a reasonable effort to be accurate when communicating the rules to other players. Any player who manipulatively misleads another player about the rules will be subject to sanction. |
| Random quote: "The National Rifle Association says, 'Guns don't kill people; people kill people,' but I think the gun helps." - Eddie Izzard |