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Bill: Abortion Act
Details
Submitted by[?]: Conservative-Libertarian Party (UM)
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: March 2414
Description[?]:
| End this mediaeval practice. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Policy on the legality of abortions
Old value:: Abortions are only allowed in medical emergencies.
Current: Abortion is allowed during the first trimester.
Proposed: Abortion is allowed during the first trimester.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 16:29:54, June 06, 2007 CET | From |  God's and the King's Fighters | To | Debating the Abortion Act |
| Message | This isn't medieval, it would be medieval, if abortions weren't allowed under any circumstances. |
| Date | 17:47:16, June 06, 2007 CET | From | Conservative-Libertarian Party (UM) | To | Debating the Abortion Act |
| Message | Of course it is. As it stands, women who have been raped cannot have an abortion. Similarly, women in poverty must be forced to have children. This is mediaeval. |
| Date | 20:27:29, June 06, 2007 CET | From | God's and the King's Fighters | To | Debating the Abortion Act |
| Message | But women who would die if they couldn't abort their children can abort them. That is not medieval. I don't think, you can force women in poverty to have children, unless you force them to have sex without contraception, of course. Also, I don't think, that the conceived child should bear the consequences, because its mother was raped. We generally prefer punishing the rapist. Also, if a woman doesn't want her child, she can always put it up for adoptio, there is no need to kill it. |
| Date | 23:53:50, June 06, 2007 CET | From | Conservative-Libertarian Party (UM) | To | Debating the Abortion Act |
| Message | So the woman has to have a reminder of her rape for the rest of her life, physically in front of her. Very compassionate. And is a child really going to have a better life being shifted from pillar to post? No - such a life would be terrible. Adoption is not an answer. |
| Date | 11:05:09, June 07, 2007 CET | From | God's and the King's Fighters | To | Debating the Abortion Act |
| Message | So you prefer to kill the child, because there is a possibility that it could be unhappy in his life? Why don't you kill physically or mental challenged persons (I think this is the right term) too, they might be unhappy too. You think the woman will forget the rape after an abortion? And again, why punish the unborn child for a crime it hasn't committed? |
| Date | 11:57:53, June 07, 2007 CET | From | Conservative-Libertarian Party (UM) | To | Debating the Abortion Act |
| Message | It's not a child in the first trimester. It is not a living being. |
| Date | 14:03:59, June 07, 2007 CET | From | Conservative Union Party | To | Debating the Abortion Act |
| Message | Yes it is a living thing, how would you like it if you were killed in the first trimester? Would you consider YOURSELF as life then? |
| Date | 18:29:13, June 07, 2007 CET | From | God's and the King's Fighters | To | Debating the Abortion Act |
| Message | And what makes you think alters exactly after the first trimester? |
| Date | 22:45:30, June 07, 2007 CET | From | Conservative-Libertarian Party (UM) | To | Debating the Abortion Act |
| Message | "Yes it is a living thing, how would you like it if you were killed in the first trimester? Would you consider YOURSELF as life then?" Again, a ridiculous thing to say, and a ridiculous way in which to justify not allowing abortion. But to address your point, I would not consider myself as life, as at that 'age' you are unable to consider. "And what makes you think alters exactly after the first trimester?" The Right is Right Party are not medical experts. But at this age, it is impossible for a child to live. If it was born at this age, it would be a miscarriage. It is therefore entirely dependent on the mother, and cannot therefore be seen as independent life. |
| Date | 22:52:59, June 07, 2007 CET | From | Christian Democratic Alternative | To | Debating the Abortion Act |
| Message | IRL I have a twin brother. Identical twins are a "flaw" of nature AND are formed during the first trimester of a pregnancy. For me life started in the first trimester, not upon conception. |
| Date | 23:00:32, June 07, 2007 CET | From | Conservative-Libertarian Party (UM) | To | Debating the Abortion Act |
| Message | So, at conception, you feel it would be ok for an abortion to take place, surely. |
| Date | 10:46:00, June 08, 2007 CET | From | God's and the King's Fighters | To | Debating the Abortion Act |
| Message | No. Our point is, that it is impossible to say, when a conceived child becomes human, or human-like enough, to be considered human or human-like enough (as it would surely turn into a full human, if not aborted, except of course if it dies before birth) to be protected by the law as much as a born human. Also, possibility to live "on its own" surely can't be a point, as a newly born child is also unable to live without help, and is also entirely dependant on at least its mother. |
| Date | 19:45:58, June 08, 2007 CET | From | Conservative-Libertarian Party (UM) | To | Debating the Abortion Act |
| Message | But a new born child is able to live for a fair while independent of another. It is able to breathe and has fully functioning organs. A foetus does not. Were the umbilical chord taken away, it would die instantly, because it has no independence whatsoever. It is therefore very different to a new-born baby. It must also be questioned how you can truly claim that you 'value' the life of the foetus. You say it would still realistically be murder. Yet, if the woman's life is under threat, you believe abortion would be correct. Why so? There is a chance that, even if the mother died, the child would live. Because you believe that in medical emergencies the foetus should be aborted, you therefore acknowledge that the child inside the mother is an inferior being. |
| Date | 20:07:03, June 08, 2007 CET | From | Conservative Union Party | To | Debating the Abortion Act |
| Message | Maybe an inferior being (ie not being born), but still a being, something which is living, even if it is entirely dependent on it's mother. The woman's life should rightly come before it, but only in emergencies which may kill the mother. |
| Date | 20:11:29, June 08, 2007 CET | From | Conservative-Libertarian Party (UM) | To | Debating the Abortion Act |
| Message | I think that stance is hypocritical. You cannot say that some lives are more important than others. Would you kill a baby? No. But you would kill a foetus, which you believe is a living being. Are you therefore comparing a foetus with an animal? |
| Date | 14:42:00, June 09, 2007 CET | From | God's and the King's Fighters | To | Debating the Abortion Act |
| Message | A person tied to a machine that keeps this person alive, would also die instantly, if you'd put this machine off, but that doesn't make this person inhuman. The difference you can find, between a new-born baby and a foetus, is that the latter one is only just becoming the first one. Nevertheless, you can't take independancy as an indicator for a "valuable" life. Of course it would be still murder, if the unborn child was aborted because of medical emergencies, but it would be one type of "justified" murder, just like self-defence. And as it is normally not possible, that the child survives, which of course relies mainly on the time when the uborn child becomes dangerous, it is clear, that the mother has to be helped. However, in cases where the child could survive, it is normally possible not to kill it, but to perform a Caesarean. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes |
Total Seats: 144 | |||
| no |
Total Seats: 106 | |||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 0 |
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| Random quote: "It is the hallmark of great society to debate and disagree without resorting to violence." - Mathew Jameson, former Hutorian politician |