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Bill: Establishment of the Second Lodamese Republic
Details
Submitted by[?]: United Republics Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill asks for an amendement to the Constitution. It will require two-thirds of the legislature to vote in favor. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: October 2414
Description[?]:
| Restores the Republic. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The constitutional right and responsibility to propose a cabinet to the legislature.
Old value:: Only the largest party can propose a cabinet.
Current: Each party can propose a cabinet coalition.
Proposed: Only the Head of State can propose a cabinet coalition.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change Structure of the executive branch.
Old value:: The Head of State is hereditary and symbolic; the Head of Government chairs the cabinet.
Current: The Head of State is also Head of Government.
Proposed: The Head of State and Head of Government are two separate officials.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 22:11:47, June 14, 2007 CET | From | United Republics Party | To | Debating the Establishment of the Second Lodamese Republic |
| Message | I opened the last debate in a spirit of good faith, but no one was willing to negotiate; rather rival parties used the thread to insult the URP and attack its intentions. The URP has supported a republic when it had zero seats so this is not a "power grab." The URP will not negotiate further and announces this bill will be put forward after the upcoming early election. The URP will continue to call for a republic and new elections as necessary until this bill passes. |
| Date | 22:43:27, June 14, 2007 CET | From | Free Lodamun | To | Debating the Establishment of the Second Lodamese Republic |
| Message | OOC: So when you lose an argument and get criticized and we prove that not only do you not actually care about the people of this nation, you disregard its history unless it works for you, you delete the bill so one else can see it? You're a class act. Hey, as long as you start actually roleplaying, I don't care. IC: Free Lodamun finds it interesting that the URP deleted the previous discussion on the issue of a republic in order to start a new one where they start out defensive. The discussion on the previous bill was both spirited and steeped in Lodamun history, which some of the parties needed a refresher in. |
| Date | 23:57:51, June 14, 2007 CET | From | Radical Nationalist Party | To | Debating the Establishment of the Second Lodamese Republic |
| Message | Yes we second what the FL have said here, the URP could of used the debate thread to put their proposals forward but they decided that it would be in their interests to delete that thread and start a fresh. We find this typical, we find thier attitude and actions detestable. The Monarchy is a old tradition which went out of phase for a short period of time but was re-established, to scrap the monarchy would be scraping our history and traditions. Our monarchy bring in tourism and money to Lodamun which is economically beneficial. Our monarchy is also respected internationally as they are seen as been politically neutral and not representing any one ideology. Also to introduce a republic would mean more bureaucracy with extra elections and paperwork etc... Also a republic would mean that we would have to go into the process of renaiming our nation yet again, how can a kingdom be a kingdom without a monarchy? We see the whole process of a Republic pointless and a waste of time, we therefore call on all parties to oppose this bill and the idea of a Republic. |
| Date | 01:33:45, June 15, 2007 CET | From | Free Lodamun | To | Debating the Establishment of the Second Lodamese Republic |
| Message | "The URP will not negotiate further" Does anyone else see the irony here? Despite MILLENNIA of Lodamese history, the URP wants to reinstitute a republic. Fine, I can see that. Rule by the people and all that. However, in order to do so, they reject one of the main tenants of a republic: negotiation. Perhaps this parliament will approve of a republic but I don't think the current leadership has any real understanding of how one functions. Let me tell you where Free Lodamun stands, if a republic could work, we'd be all for it. However, modern republics pay those who make up their voting bodies. It is a career. Careerist republicans grow the bureaucracy in order to garner more power for themselves. When their power is too great, they are exposed for corruption and their replacements begin the cycle again. This is history. This is fact. Republics have a life cycle, they have an expiration date. They fail. If the consensus is to start a republic, we'll go along. However, we will not support one with the URP as majority party. They're the only party that refuses to negotiate and refuses to hear people out. A fine trait occasionally, but writ large and constant, a dangerous quality in the group that is supposed to lead us. Earlier, the URP destroyed a thread in which they were exposed as frauds. Instead of allowing that to be read, they slung some mud and started a new one. This is not democracy, this is not a group that should be creating popular rule. Time again they have proven that the people are subserviant to profits. No matter where you stand on the republic question, I urge the body not to approve any change while the URP remains in power. Thank you for your time. |
| Date | 01:49:56, June 15, 2007 CET | From | Kaiserliche Hulsterreichische Partei | To | Debating the Establishment of the Second Lodamese Republic |
| Message | The Imperial Crownlands of Greater Hulstria are willing to aid the established government in anyway we can to see the continued presence of the Monarchy in Lodamun. |
| Date | 07:58:54, June 15, 2007 CET | From | United Republics Party | To | Debating the Establishment of the Second Lodamese Republic |
| Message | Actually the URP tried to negotiate. I actually offered several areas I'd be ready to comprimise, no one pursued this. This bill will not include an expansion of the parliament as a result. |
| Date | 21:34:32, June 15, 2007 CET | From | Free Lodamun | To | Debating the Establishment of the Second Lodamese Republic |
| Message | Again the URP shows their democratic failings. They introduced a new budget without even trying to talk it out first. How can we even consider changing the current government with this group in power? |
| Date | 21:51:01, June 15, 2007 CET | From | United Republics Party | To | Debating the Establishment of the Second Lodamese Republic |
| Message | I think FL has demonstrated that they make their opinions ahead of time as well, attack bills with the most outrageous crackpot theories, and propose bills and then argue its language means something totally different. I am confused who FL would support having in government? The totalitarian NP or perhaps the totalitarian "Free" Lodamese? When we've tried negotiating in the past we were told we could hammer the details out later and then argued over the incarnation of the Monarchy 400 years ago which probably only exists in lore and FL's imagination. FL demands URP prove every iota and detail even when it's the one advocating change and therefore its burden to prove why change is necessary. It votes for exclusionist and militarily dangerous policies without offering any proof that homosexual adoption is dangerous or why we should mistreat prisoners or have a nuclear first strike policy other than 'eh, maybe we'll want to do it in the future. Let's not tie our hands from commiting future genocide." FL is the failure of democracy. |
| Date | 04:07:24, June 16, 2007 CET | From | Lodamun Liberal-Conservative Party | To | Debating the Establishment of the Second Lodamese Republic |
| Message | We support the proud national tradition of the monarchy, and cannot see any legitimate reason for a conversion to a republic. This will concentrate more power in the hands of the head of state, which is never a good thing. To eliminate the monarchy is to eliminate decades of this nation's rich culture and tradition. |
| Date | 11:59:42, June 16, 2007 CET | From | United Republics Party | To | Debating the Establishment of the Second Lodamese Republic |
| Message | Is the NP too cowardly to even vote on this bill? Lest they draw the ire of the 100% of Lodamese who support this bill. |
| Date | 14:17:04, June 16, 2007 CET | From | Radical Nationalist Party | To | Debating the Establishment of the Second Lodamese Republic |
| Message | The NP was at a 21st birthday party you muppet. |
| Date | 18:33:28, June 16, 2007 CET | From | Lodamun Distributionist Party | To | Debating the Establishment of the Second Lodamese Republic |
| Message | Distributionism and small government is able to flourish under any number of governmental structures, including full republics and constitutional monarchies. The LDP respects the current monarchy as a non-restrictive tradition that does little harm to our nation. The LDP also has no problems with a republician government in general, though we do see problems with a republic as led by the current regime and without an increase in the number of seats to represent the people of Lodamun. As such, and considering the fact that our vote is simply a symbolic gesture of support for one of the Big 2 parties in Lodamun and holds no sway on this particular issue beyond that support, we choose to knowingly abstain from voting "yea" or "nay" on this issue. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 234 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 237 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 128 |
| Random fact: "Spamming", or the indiscriminate posting of unsolicited messages, is not allowed. |
| Random quote: "Before all else, be armed." - Niccolo Machiavelli |