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Bill: Optional Private Pension Act of May 2432

Details

Submitted by[?]: Socialist Reform Party

Status[?]: defeated

Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.

Voting deadline: June 2433

Description[?]:

The state operates a compulsory public system combined with an optional private pension.

Proposals

Debate

These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:

Date02:51:11, July 23, 2007 CET
FromSocialist Reform Party
ToDebating the Optional Private Pension Act of May 2432
MessageWhat is the problem with an optional private pension, will the world come to an end? It almost seems like you communists want to punish anyone who succeds, our party supports the rights of the unfortunate and poor, but you communists want to punish the ones who break the chains of poverty.

Date12:43:35, July 23, 2007 CET
FromGaduri Resistencia
ToDebating the Optional Private Pension Act of May 2432
MessageNo. We want to punish the ones who create those chains. Pretty simple really.

Date17:03:55, July 23, 2007 CET
FromCapitalists for Prosperity
ToDebating the Optional Private Pension Act of May 2432
MessagePoverty is not always relative to the wealth gap. Africa is very egalitarian, but would you say that no one is poor there? Even though your wages may go down in comparison to others, due to prosperity from economic liberalization, your real wages go up.

Date17:06:57, July 23, 2007 CET
FromGaduri Resistencia
ToDebating the Optional Private Pension Act of May 2432
MessageAfrica is poor because of the international wealth gap.

Date17:16:20, July 23, 2007 CET
FromCapitalists for Prosperity
ToDebating the Optional Private Pension Act of May 2432
MessageNo, all the wealth gap does is define poverty and wealth standards which itself is based on the level of resources available. However, 50 years from now, even if the wealth gap remains the same, the definition of poverty and wealth will change. That is because economic mobilization levels and technology can raise the number of resources available. Both the poor and the rich will have more. By creating an economic that can maximize economic mobilization and technogical breakthroughs, it's possible that the poor can be richer than the those in a communal society.

Date17:22:00, July 23, 2007 CET
FromGaduri Resistencia
ToDebating the Optional Private Pension Act of May 2432
MessageYou're obfuscating. Africa is poor, and in many areas becoming poorer, because of Western exploitation. It really is as simple as that. As long as the West takes resources from Africa at dirt-cheap prices, Africa cannot home for economic growth. The poor will remain poor, while the rich West grows richer.

Date17:27:31, July 23, 2007 CET
FromCapitalists for Prosperity
ToDebating the Optional Private Pension Act of May 2432
MessageYes, free trade doesn't do much for underdeveloped countries, unfortunately, and the World Bank doesn't seem to have figured out the importance of protecting infant industries.

Anyway, you're statement simply proves my point. Western exploitation prevents economic mobilization, and the lack of wealth prevents schools from popping up, which hampers technological breakthroughs. Economic mobilization and technology creates wealth for all. Lack thereof creates poverty.

Date17:31:55, July 23, 2007 CET
FromGaduri Resistencia
ToDebating the Optional Private Pension Act of May 2432
MessageA communist society is perfectly capable economic mobilisation and the creation of new technology, which then benefit everybody. In a truly capitalist society the benefits these provide to the poor are outweighed by the costs of the inevitable exploitation that occurs.

P.S. We should try and avoid logging in at the same time...

Date17:39:27, July 23, 2007 CET
FromCapitalists for Prosperity
ToDebating the Optional Private Pension Act of May 2432
MessageA communist society is not capable of complete economic mobilization or creation of new technology. Since people still buy and/or take what they want not based on government decree but on their own feelings, which the state has some trouble keeping up on, especialy with worries of corruption or incompetence, a free market economy can insure that we neither have food flooding the streets or empty grocery shelves. Technological breakthroughs are low due to a lack of incentives for people to create that technology. Since there is no monetary reward, nobody pursues their ideas.

P.S. Why don't you want to log on at the same time? Is it because you keep losing arguments to me, or is that you know that I touch myself whenever I see your party name and have wet dreams including you at night.

Date17:45:43, July 23, 2007 CET
FromGaduri Resistencia
ToDebating the Optional Private Pension Act of May 2432
MessageWrong. We have already extensively discussed the ways in which a communist government can create incentives for economic mobilisation and the development of new technology, as well give consumers power to decide what is purchased. Such a system of de-centralised communism creates all the benefits of capitalism without the many costs.

P.S. No, it's because much as I like winning arguments, I don't really have time for this. Now you can add me being terrified of you to that list though...

Date17:50:18, July 23, 2007 CET
FromCapitalists for Prosperity
ToDebating the Optional Private Pension Act of May 2432
MessageHow exactly are you able to keep constant tabs on public opinion to ensure that the economy mobilizes to their wants? You haven't really explained that. Please do also explain how inventors have as much of an incentive to invent in a capitalist society as in your communist one.

P.S. Terrified? Oh smoochums, come here. It'll only hurt for a little while.

Date18:11:52, July 23, 2007 CET
FromGaduri Resistencia
ToDebating the Optional Private Pension Act of May 2432
MessageOkay, we've been through this. Rather than simply give consumers an average of the production of society, we distribute them some form of currency with which to purchase the use of whatever they want/need. Workers in soviets which recieve more of these will then be paid more of these, workers in less popular soviets receive less. Wage rates are controlled by central government, so that there isn't enough of a wage gap for people to fall below the poverty line or for others to become so rich that they can exploit the poor. That ensures economic mobilisation without the twin evils of a wage gap and private ownership of non-essential items. A similar system functions effectively for technology.

Date18:17:15, July 23, 2007 CET
FromCapitalists for Prosperity
ToDebating the Optional Private Pension Act of May 2432
MessageOf course, the free market does all of this far more efficiently. You also forget that some workers may be willing to give some of their paycheck to politicians to have their wages increased beyond the amount they gave. In a centralized system, everything must wait for government decree, which may come too late and too early, and it may overestimate or underestimate its impact. With the free market, everything is nice and smooth, which exception to only a couple of bubble bursts every now and then.

As for your system for technological breakthroughs, the incentive isn't nearly as great as in a capitalist society.

Date18:22:12, July 23, 2007 CET
FromCapitalists for Prosperity
ToDebating the Optional Private Pension Act of May 2432
MessageBy the way, you never answered my P.S. comment.

Date18:23:48, July 23, 2007 CET
FromGaduri Resistencia
ToDebating the Optional Private Pension Act of May 2432
MessageYou have given no reason why the system is any less effective than the capitalist one. The whole point of this sytem is that it is decentralised communism, and hence is every bit as efficient as capitalism. The incentive for technological breakthroughs is actually greater in a communist society because an inventor will not need to sign away most of the profit from their idea to a venture capitalist, they can simply set up a soviet of their own with initial government funding. As for the politicians, that is why we have a system of democratic communism. Besides it isn't like politicians in a free market are known for their honestly an incorruptibility. Finally, a system of decentraslised communism where the only shareholders are the workers is far more stable than a free market, where a single "bubble burst" can annihilate the livelihoods of thousands.

Date18:24:33, July 23, 2007 CET
FromGaduri Resistencia
ToDebating the Optional Private Pension Act of May 2432
MessageAs for your P.S. comment, you bourgeois decadence is typical of the evil capitalists who sponsor you.

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Voting

Vote Seats
yes
    

Total Seats: 107

no
    

Total Seats: 328

abstain
 

Total Seats: 0


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