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Bill: Linguistic Equality Bill
Details
Submitted by[?]: Drtárék Jelbék Prta
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill asks for an amendement to the Constitution. It will require two-thirds of the legislature to vote in favor. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 2447
Description[?]:
| We propose that our ancestral language Jelbék is given an equal status to the recent French import in the naming of our public institutions, therefore we propose the following changes. We feel that it is time that our Jelbék tongue was recognised as one of two official languages in this nation, French and Jelbék. Therefore we propose that current titles our retained, but that Jelbék equivalents should be recognised as official, and allowed in state usage. With two-thirds majority our nations name will become the following; République Fédérée de Jelbania (Jelbék Mokiwrntumojadé Knstat) |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The title of the head of government, who chairs the cabinet.
Old value:: Premier ministre de la République
Current: Wrntusrljikai (Forward-Souled Person)
Proposed: Premier ministre de la République (Jezhikoék'ai)
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change The formal title of the Head of State.
Old value:: Président de la République
Current: Hldjez'shprpzi Jebr II, wrzy Jelbék H'an, grzy hldjomek Jeztaghaék Kahegrm Abshrmojadhiko yrzy Nubajrkaék Bék (His Exalted Highness, elected by the Great Kurultai, Jebr II, Khan of Jelbe, Great Purple Wolf, Supreme Commander of the Great Jelbek Horde, Lord of the Great Perimor Steppe, Bek of the royal clan of Nubajrka)
Proposed: Président de la République (Isràkai)
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change The official title of the legislative assembly.
Old value:: Assemblée nationale
Current: Bltmojad Knzsrlji Vezr (Council of Royal Advisors)
Proposed:
| Assemblée nationale (Jelbék Krs'kaisrne) |
Article 4
Proposal[?] to change The National Animal.
Old value:: Jelbanian River Hawk
Current: Jeztaghé Krt (Steppe Wolf)
Proposed: Jelbanian River Hawk (Jelbék akedé Jeztri)
Article 5
Proposal[?] to change The official title of subnational entities, also known as regions.
Old value:: Province
Current: Taghe
Proposed: Province (Taghékwrntumojad)
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 20:14:30, August 20, 2007 CET | From |  Revolutionary Constit'nal United Front | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | We would only support this proposal if instead of two officials languages, we establish three official languages. French, Jelbek, and Post-Jacobian Revised Olde English--the particular dialect Our Founding Fathers had used in their private conversations. Of course, the PJROE language is limited to usage only by elected government officials and all those directly under the employment of the Federal Government. All forms and documents must be exclusively in PJROE with no other language translations available. Speaking, learning, writing, and/or reading PJROE without proper government authorization would be prohbitted. Other than that it would have no greater preference than any of the other two official languages. Therefore, we would support the following amendments: République Fédérée de Jelbania (Jelbék Mokiwrntumojadé Knstat) [Most Soveriegn, Endowed with Freedom and Glory, Modestly Enshrined by the Celestial Firmament and God, Christ, himself, We the Federal and Democratic Republican Entity that is to be Henceforth Named Jelbania] Article 1 Proposal[?] to change The official title of subnational entities, also known as regions. Old value:: Province Current: Province Proposed: Province (Taghékwrntumojad) [Provincial Shire Countie] Article 2 Proposal[?] to change The title of the head of government, who chairs the cabinet. Old value:: Premier ministre de la République Current: Premier ministre de la République Proposed: Premier ministre de la République (Jezhikoék'ai) ['Fore the Twice Mister of Ministries, Ordained and Recognized, Historically Avowed, of the Republic, of Jelbanian Origin] Article 3 Proposal[?] to change The formal title of the Head of State. Old value:: Président de la République Current: Président de la République Proposed: Président de la République (Isràkai) ['Fore the Twice Mister of Presidency, Ordained and Recognized, Historically Avowed, of the Republic, of Jelbanian Origin] Article 4 Proposal[?] to change The official title of the legislative assembly. Old value:: Assemblée nationale Current: Assemblée nationale Proposed: Assemblée nationale (Jelbék Krs'kaisrne) [Of National and Prenational Birth and of Republicanism, Democracy, Federalism and such Ideals thereof, contained wholly but without Caprice, a Selected Comitty of Self-Selected Persons Herefore Ordained and Established with Prescience and Presence in Totality Within the Halls of the National, Jelbanian Purity, the Modest yet Magnificent Assembly of Nationals and Elected with Jelbanian Authority] Article 5 Proposal[?] to change The National Animal. Old value:: Jelbanian River Hawk Current: Jelbanian River Hawk Proposed: Jelbanian River Hawk (Jelbék akedé Jeztri) [Jelbanian Sparrow of Rancor] |
| Date | 20:17:46, August 20, 2007 CET | From | Drtárék Jelbék Prta | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | We could possibly back, although I'll post the following info. |
| Date | 20:18:22, August 20, 2007 CET | From | Drtárék Jelbék Prta | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | Communication from JKK to CCU, a few days back. We wish to have an explanation providing a basis for the linguistic history of our nation. Currently we are a nation that has a French basis for the name of its state, and its national institutions. However our name was only changed in July 2391 (http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=111865 , and the Frenchification process was continued in April 2394 (http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=112526 ). It can also be established that we have had an on/off relationship with French speaking nations since it was first proposed that we join the Accord des Nations Amicales in April 2344 (http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=97175 ), although we finally joined the Treaty in April 2390 (http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=110715 ) However prior to our nation becoming French, and us joining the French Treaty, the following Bill was passed (http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=110707 ), which RESTORED English, rather than French names for our institutions. However, all of the above follows a period between May 2349 and March 2388 in which the following party largely dominated (http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewparty.php?partyid=3423 ), the Cynical Bastardry Party. The CBP launched the Jelbék revolution (http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=71805 ), in which Jelbék became the language used for our national institutions. One may assume that it was the Restoration Bill mentioned above that undid these Jelbék terms, which within a short term were replaced by French terms. === So here we enter what the JKK wish to discus, the status of the two languages that have been used within our nation to name its official institutions since 2283. It is our belief that the following explain current circumstances as to the languages associated with our nation. Jelbék – Historical records ascertain that this language has been in the region since AD 400 (http://particracy.wikia.com/wiki/Terran_Language_Families#Jelbic ) (http://particracy.wikia.com/wiki/Jelb%C3%A9k ), and is part of a group of languages that have been spoken in the region, initially covering fair chunk of our continent (Majatra), but now reduced to Pontesi and Jelbania. French – On the other hand French, ethnicity and language (http://particracy.wikia.com/wiki/French_%28ethnicity%29 ) have no real heritage in either Jelbania, or our continent Majatra. In fact French speaking nations are primarily located in southern Seleya (http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewtreaty.php?treatyid=481 the red blob in the bottom right hand corner of the map ). Indeed of the five nations on Terra that have French names, Jelbania is the only one located outside of Seleya, indeed the only one located outside of southern Seleya. Conclusion – Therefore it can be seen that French cannot be native to Jelbania. The history on the wikia points to the conclusion that French is native to southern Seleya, whereas proto-Jelbic is native to northwestern Majatra. Therefore Jelbék must be considered as the ancestral language of the nation, and the people of this nation. Proposal – However we recognise that French is a part of our history and culture, and has a special place in the nation, therefore we propose the following. Jelbék is the language, or rather ancestral language of most Jelbanians. However today it is often seen as a sign of backwardness, and is largely spoken in rural areas and amongst the lower orders of society. It maintains a toehold in high culture, but has lost its official status within the nation. On the other hand there has been a shift amongst the cultural, political and economic elite’s of the nation towards the use of the French language, something that was evident a long time ago (say when the CCU was first founded), and became an established fact in the 2390’s, and continues today. Thus the French language and culture is an important part of the ruling class of our society, but note they are not of French ethnicity, as people of such ethnicity dwell in southern Seleya, but never in Majatra. Ooc: Basically think of Lebanon today, where French became the preferred language of the Christian elites in that nation, and was used as the official language, whilst Arabic remained largely spoken amongst the rest of the population. Also look at Latin in medieval Europe, weher it was the language of the elites, but not of the poor, nor was it the ancestral language of most Europeans. CCU I have sent this to you in order that we can come to some compromise regarding the two languages. Ideally I would like to present this case to the other parties at some point, so that we have a clear RP context with which to relate to other nations, particularly our neighbours, and the ethnic French nations of southern Seleya. I believe it is fair as it takes into account information I have found elsewhere, and the Bills that have passed in our nation. It also legitimately explains why our languages exist side by side, and how we can both see ourselves as Jelbanians, despite a desire to use different languages, one the ancestral but low cultural language, and t’other an imported language that forms our high culture and is used by our elite’s. What do you think? |
| Date | 20:34:20, August 20, 2007 CET | From | Revolutionary Constit'nal United Front | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | OOC: Let's try and take this oppurtunity to discuss the actual founding of Jelbania. Since English seemed to have been the original language used back when this game started, I'm basing my whole party on the supposed historical fact that the founding fathers spoke predominantly an excessively abstruse and prolix dialect of post-Old English. I am assuming they were old-world capitalists like that of the Gilded Age in America. Basically, huge monopolists with very little government regulation. So I assume pre-WW I, imperialist sort of English was spoken. Then at some point French became popular and here we are now. As a sidenote, we're guessing that the Jelbek were horribly prosecuted by the founding fathers in the same way the natives were whereever a foreign government is established. |
| Date | 20:38:03, August 20, 2007 CET | From | Drtárék Jelbék Prta | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | ooc: That could well work. I am hoping to to begin formulating ideas for the history of our nation, and a colonial style government could well work. Some time we're have to start a conference wamongst all parties here so that we can get a valid history going. It is a shame because many other nations appear to have some consensus, yet the founding parties here appear to have done little. I think the idea of foreign speaking elites, initially English, then French, is a perfectly valid idea, and offers an explanation for the early use of English, and later/current use of French for official institutions. |
| Date | 20:46:38, August 20, 2007 CET | From | Revolutionary Constit'nal United Front | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | OOC: Some general thoughts: I favor the idea of a highly elitist early culture, where the government was predominantly run by competing wealthy families, that had pretenses of being aristocrats, but to uphold the idea of a republic, never actually declared themselves as such. Also I think that time should have been defined by pseudo-science like spontaneous generation, a revival in the attempts at alchemy and metaphysical philosophy that aimed to reconcile religion with science. |
| Date | 20:53:09, August 20, 2007 CET | From | Drtárék Jelbék Prta | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | ooc: The Jelbek language existed from 400 AD. So I imagined some sort of backward dark age/medieval Kingdom/s in existence in Jelbania pretty much until the modern era (ie our foundation in the mid 2100's). However from say 1500 to 2100 our neighbours in Deltaria occasionally dominated Jelbania, or at least actively interefered in the petty minor states that existed here. Then in the early 2100's, coinciding with the collapse of authority in Deltaria that led to the first democracy, English speaking adventurers (perhaps from Luthori or Kirlawa or Dorvik) helped to liberate Jelbania in its entirety from Deltaria, forming a new elite within the nation (taking over from the Deltarians), and creating the first Jelbania nation encompassing its modern territory, the 'founding fathers', and doing what you suggested above. A very basic outline? |
| Date | 21:00:17, August 20, 2007 CET | From | Revolutionary Constit'nal United Front | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | OOC: That sounds excellent. I could make up a detailed history of the Founding Fathers for the wiki. I would be open for the inclusion of any liberal-minded idealist founding fathers. But as of right now, I'll go on the ad hoc "historical" quotes I've used in debates of bills--so many of them are going to be pseudo-scientist elitists along with a few rugged frontiersmen. |
| Date | 21:04:26, August 20, 2007 CET | From | Bloc Militaire pour Restauration | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | Our party is severly split on the issue of language. The more liberal side supports the recognition of the Jelbek language. The other more federalist side, with broad support among the French speaking middle class is against. They are afraid that this is the first step in the abolition of French as a official language and a centralised state. Their support can be won when some cities are renamed in French and the flag is changed so that it contains a French symbol. OOC: We propose that trough trade with Southern Seleyan Rilmos people learned french and learned to admire the French culture; they also married with French from this continent. Since especially middle class and upper class were traders; they learned French. In the inner regions they still speak Jelbek |
| Date | 21:09:03, August 20, 2007 CET | From | Drtárék Jelbék Prta | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | ooc: Aye thats perfectly valid LPJ, I imagined Jelbek as the rural/working class language. |
| Date | 21:34:29, August 20, 2007 CET | From | Lib-Gov Party-part of W.A-S.U | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | We support |
| Date | 06:19:33, August 21, 2007 CET | From | Centre Démocratique | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | ooc: We support a bilingual nation of French and Jelbek. The idea about adding "Post-Jacobian Revised Olde English" would be a little confusing. We agree with JKK and the Liberals that French should be designated as the language of the professional-merchant-educated class. We are glad that there is a discussion about this going on. We've never really had anything like it in the past. |
| Date | 06:20:46, August 21, 2007 CET | From | Centre Démocratique | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | We also agree with the Liberals about changing the names of some of our cities to French (long overdue) and putting a French symbol in our flag. |
| Date | 01:16:20, August 22, 2007 CET | From | Mjesrne | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | Krsyijotrnat are pleased with this step in the right direction but falls short of the restoration of full Jelbic identity. OOC: English was the OOC original language in all nations until cultures were developed - the game didn't have predetermined ones, they were to be set by conquest or consensus. The Deltarian Empire first oppressed the Jelbic peoples and after its collapse, city states formed of families and duchies - think Medieval Italy before a unification. This was the idea established on the forum in the JZPB days. We also appreciate that as a deliberately inactive extremeist entity, our comments will not effect any passing. |
| Date | 17:52:06, August 24, 2007 CET | From | Jesuék avé Avjogadék Kàticképylz | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | We support Jélbék and the Olde English only! French is not from here, amicables bîen sur, mais il a besoin d'avoir des limites. Friendly yes, but, we have got to have limits, French is ours as much as Arab. We are not from Beiteynu, nor from Seleya, so Jélbék forever. However, the Jelbanian Nationalist Union must forgive the MPs and teach us some Jélbék |
| Date | 18:04:41, August 24, 2007 CET | From | Jesuék avé Avjogadék Kàticképylz | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | We support Jélbék and the Olde English only! French is not from here, amicables bîen sur, mais il a besoin d'avoir des limites. Friendly yes, but, we have got to have limits, French is ours as much as Arab. We are not from Beiteynu, nor from Seleya, so Jélbék forever. However, the Jelbanian Nationalist Union must forgive the MPs and teach us some Jélbék |
| Date | 18:07:23, August 24, 2007 CET | From | Jesuék avé Avjogadék Kàticképylz | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | OOC: Actually, I support French, congrats LPJ, you convinced me |
| Date | 22:20:25, August 24, 2007 CET | From | Jesuék avé Avjogadék Kàticképylz | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | Since we are no longer members of the Accord, le Français is not good, and it must be removed from our language |
| Date | 11:11:45, August 25, 2007 CET | From | Drtárék Jelbék Prta | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | Well, we'll go for the half way measure first, establishing French and Jelbék as twin official languages. We shall put this to vote now, believing that this compromise is the best way of maintaining good relations between French and Jelbék speakers. ooc: I'll make sure I keep a note of this thread. This weekend I hope to start and complete various wiki articles on the nation, on my party and on ethnic Jelbéks. However out of fairness to the Liberals, who specifically requested that they wanted to participate in a discussion on Jelbania's history, I think we should refrain from actually doing naything about that at the moment, other than formulating ideas. |
| Date | 13:41:30, August 25, 2007 CET | From | Jesuék avé Avjogadék Kàticképylz | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | OK, We will support this compromise. OOC:Yes, Yes, History, yes. Also, I ask that IdioC and JKK be enquired over our party names. Let's make a correct RP |
| Date | 14:22:12, August 25, 2007 CET | From | Centre Démocratique | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | For those "new" parties that have just arrived, French HAS been here since the founding of our nation. I also might add that we will once again join the Accord, once the political situation changes. |
| Date | 19:36:31, August 25, 2007 CET | From | Drtárék Jelbék Prta | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | Hopefully never. |
| Date | 19:57:44, August 26, 2007 CET | From | Jesuék avé Avjogadék Kàticképylz | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | Indeed, hopefully never |
| Date | 23:29:20, August 26, 2007 CET | From | Mjesrne | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | Date 14:22:12, August 25, 2007 CET From Christian Citizens Union To Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill Message For those "new" parties that have just arrived, French HAS been here since the founding of our nation. OOC: Re-founding of this nation under your stewardship, several decades after the re-founding of this nation under mine! |
| Date | 23:44:10, August 26, 2007 CET | From | Mjesrne | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | Also, your name's never been in French... |
| Date | 05:15:10, August 27, 2007 CET | From | Centre Démocratique | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | This is just pathetic. If you to this page: http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewnews.php?newsid=28601 You will see that the 2165 elections featured our candidate N Beaudoin, a man of French descent, leading our party and winning election. If you look through our party history you'll see we've been led mostly by people with French names. Why are you making stuff up? |
| Date | 06:52:58, August 27, 2007 CET | From | Revolutionary Constit'nal United Front | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | We maintain that the only true language of Jelbania is Post Jacobian Revised Old English. We refuse to support the re-emergence of an uncivilized tongue. OOC: Let's just assume that there was no real official language in early Jelbania (when it became a nation). The indigenous language is Jelbek, but the diaspora of French speaking and English speaking settlers had rendered any official language impossible. That said I'd like it if at least some of the "Founding Fathers" spoke this bizarre English dialect. |
| Date | 12:52:50, August 27, 2007 CET | From | Drtárék Jelbék Prta | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | ooc: They may well have done, we'll discuss all of this when we start a debate over our nations history properly. |
| Date | 14:22:33, August 27, 2007 CET | From | Centre Démocratique | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | ooc: We have decided to withdraw our support until we discuss the history of our nation. |
| Date | 15:27:45, August 27, 2007 CET | From | Drtárék Jelbék Prta | To | Debating the Linguistic Equality Bill |
| Message | This will no doubt inflame relations between the two communities. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 56 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 36 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 8 |
| Random fact: If there are no parties in your nation with seats, feel free to visit the forum and request an early election on the Early Election Requests thread: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4362 |
| Random quote: "Capitalism demands the best of every man- his rationality- and rewards him accordingly. It leaves every man free to choose the work he likes, to specialize in it, to trade his product for the products of others, and to go as far on the road of achievement as his ability and ambition will carry him." - Ayn Rand |