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Bill: Loi de Sécurité
Details
Submitted by[?]: Partie Patriotique de Kanjor
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: January 2449
Description[?]:
| To increase our security by enabling more effective intelligence measures and allowing for conscription in times of war. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Nation's policy with regards to an intelligence agency.
Old value:: The nation has an intelligence agency, but it is limited to counter-intelligence and surveillance of other countries.
Current: The nation has an intelligence agency that is permitted by law to undertake all types of covert operations in other countries.
Proposed: The nation has an intelligence agency that is permitted by law to undertake all types of covert operations in other countries.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change National service.
Old value:: There shall be no mandatory military or civilian national service.
Current: All adults upon completion of schooling must serve either a term in the military or a lesser paid term of civilian national service, at their option.
Proposed: All adults upon completion of schooling can be required in times of war to serve a term in the military.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 17:57:18, August 25, 2007 CET | From |  Union Hosienne-Démocrate (UHD) | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | Agree. Pro Patria! |
| Date | 19:09:25, August 25, 2007 CET | From | Grand Order of Organized Native Sodality | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=135845 Yes, we will support. |
| Date | 22:24:47, August 25, 2007 CET | From | 2ème PPPP | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | No. Conscription. Ever. |
| Date | 12:31:20, August 27, 2007 CET | From | Kanjoran Centrist Party | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | Article 1 only... |
| Date | 18:21:32, August 27, 2007 CET | From | Mordusian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | We shall always support a strengthening of our neighbour's ability. The Government of Mordusia encourages all parties to endorse these important measures, given that Kanjors' enemies are strengthening theirs. Foriegn Minister Marzio Scevola The Federación Española de Mordusia |
| Date | 18:49:16, August 27, 2007 CET | From | 2ème PPPP | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | Mordusian capitalist pigs! What kind of people gives a party like yours the plurality? |
| Date | 19:04:15, August 27, 2007 CET | From | Mordusian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | lol... diplomactic much? |
| Date | 19:08:42, August 27, 2007 CET | From | Mordusian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | For the fact that the Parti Pour Paix et Progress appears to be unaware that this Government has an ongoing relationship with that of Deux Kanjors, we shall ignore such a rash outburst. We do however recommend that they restrain themselves when talking to a friend or ally, and perhaps take lessons in 'Diplomacy 101'. Foriegn Minister Marzio Scevola The Federación Española de Mordusia |
| Date | 19:16:51, August 27, 2007 CET | From | 2ème PPPP | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | Friends should not encourage the lessening of freedoms in the other's nation. Neither should they support proposals that allow acts of covert violence to be committed overseas, or anywhere for that matter. Kanjor stands for truth, justice, and freedom... and love I guess. Thanks Gandhi. When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall - think of it, always. What way does Mordusia stand for? |
| Date | 19:52:15, August 27, 2007 CET | From | Mordusian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | You're complicating a very uncomplex matter. We're debating whether Kanjors should be allowed to undertake covert operations in other nations, and whether Conscription be legalized in times of war. Now those may be the opinions of your party, but I know for a fact that there are members of your Government that disagree with you, and who aren't nearly as close minded. We posted a message to (hopefully) encourage parties to vote in favor of the proposed resolutions, because we believe in the values that Kanjors fights for. Truth, justice, democracy, and freedom are all great things to fight for, but if you're going to fight for it, you might as well give yourself the best opportunity to do so. Don't confuse 'truth, justice, and freedom' with 'whatever you agree with', and 'tyrants and murderers' with 'people you disagree with'. It's a horribly shallow way of looking at the world, and it's (unsurprisingly) one of the first thoughts to totalitarianism. |
| Date | 19:54:23, August 27, 2007 CET | From | Mordusian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | In short with regards to our message above: 'Get real'. |
| Date | 20:08:57, August 27, 2007 CET | From | 2ème PPPP | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | I hardly called anyone a tyrant or murderer. The only thing I've called anyone is you a capitalist pig- and that still stands. Is it so closed minded to believe that forcing your citizens to serve in the military is at least somewhat restrictive of their freedom to do what they choose to? When we are at war, only those who are so compelled to fight shall do so. As for the intelligence agency issue, the PPPP maintains that no nation has a right to interfere with "all types of covert operations" in another country's sovereignty. It's classic that parties like yours should turn to excuses of security to impose upon the people's freedom. In fact, such actions are usually the beginnings of totalitarianism. |
| Date | 20:58:34, August 27, 2007 CET | From | Mordusian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | Even still, the President and Government of Mordusia maintains its right to address our friends in the Sénat du Kanjor, and to recommend policy for its members. In the same way, the Sénat du Kanjor maintains its right to legislate on behalf of the people of Duex Kanjors, and to take or ignore our advice based on what its members feel is best for the nation. We did not intend to argue with you, nor be insulted. In this, we demand an immediate apology from the Parti Pour Paix et Progress for its insensitivity toward the Government of one of Kanjors allies. Disagreements with us on market ideology they may have, but there should still remain a level of respect and diplomacy when talking between one another. The Government of Mordusia moves to condemn Parti Pour Paix et Progress and its leaders for this reason, includings its seat-holding representatives. We hope that division created by their insensitivity can be rebridged by the more reasonable parties in Kanjors. Perhaps -they- would be better served taking the roles of Head of State and Government. Nevertheless, we do not feel that this will make for a permanant shift in our attitude to Deux Kanjors as a nation and ally at this time, since, we believe in the other parties that exist here. Foriegn Minister Marzio Scevola The Federación Española de Mordusia Co-Signed, Chancellor Carmine Goodchild; President Eugene Washington. |
| Date | 21:04:40, August 27, 2007 CET | From | 2ème PPPP | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | lol |
| Date | 21:05:47, August 27, 2007 CET | From | 2ème PPPP | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | Excuse me- LOL, signed Président de la Confédération Olivier Besancenot et Premier Ministre de la Confédération Pierre Etienne, Chef de la Parti Pour Paix et Progress |
| Date | 21:24:49, August 27, 2007 CET | From | Mordusian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | Let it be known then, that it will be the Parti Pour Paix et Progress who will suffer the concequences for insulting the dignified leaders of another country... not us. |
| Date | 21:26:27, August 27, 2007 CET | From | Mordusian Conservative Party | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | Let it be known then, that it will be the Parti Pour Paix et Progress who will suffer the concequences for insulting the dignified leaders of another country... not us. Our support for the current administration of Kanjors is henceforth removed. We hope that some of the other parties within Duex Kanjors will see some sense in this, and reject future coalitions with the Parti Pour Paix et Progress (if they are able). |
| Date | 21:59:13, August 27, 2007 CET | From | 2ème PPPP | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | Let it be known then, such petty politics hardly deserves any attention at all from those wishing for real peace and progress for their people. My fellows in Kanjor will vote with me or against me based on their understanding of what Kanjorans need, not the whining of the MCP. |
| Date | 16:36:46, August 31, 2007 CET | From | Grand Order of Organized Native Sodality | To | Debating the Loi de Sécurité |
| Message | Yes, what a grand ally we have in Mordusia. There are trade rights between us. And, an assured lack of help in times of war. We do not understand some peoples desire to claim some sort of alliance between Mordusia and Kanjor. We are trading partners. Nothing more. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes |
Total Seats: 150 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 184 | |||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 41 |
| Random fact: It usually takes up to an hour for election results to generate. During this time, the "Next Election" date is put forward a month, which is confusing. Do not worry! In a short time, the election result will generate and the "Next Election" date will then correct itself. |
| Random quote: "The most certain test by which we judge whether a country is really free is the amount of security enjoyed by minorities." - John Dalberg-Acton |