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Bill: Abolition of the Grants committee.

Details

Submitted by[?]: Liberal Party for Equality

Status[?]: passed

Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.

Voting deadline: November 2104

Description[?]:

Welfare in this country has ground to a standstill, thanks to the infrequent meetings and slap dash manner of the Grants Committee set up by the Hope and Spirit act. many many people who need help are not recieving it in many areas, with a few exceptions where organisations are being overfunded.

Furthermore, under the current system there is no way to encorporate the spending of the committee into the national budget, giving us unreliable and innacurate financial projections.

It is my suggestion that we decide all matters of welfare on an individual basis, as has already started happening despite the existance of the committee, and remove this inneficient medium.

If this bill is sucessful all parties will be free to propose and vote in welfare bills on whatever they feel to be the best solution to that particular issue, without having to argue in the free for all that is the discussion of the committee, and without pitting one issue against another. This will far more accurately represent the views of our people than the arbitary allocation of funds at present occuring in the Grants committee.

Proposals

Debate

These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:

Date22:50:00, August 16, 2005 CET
FromLiberal Party for Equality
ToDebating the Abolition of the Grants committee.
Messageany comments?

Date22:51:16, August 16, 2005 CET
FromLiberal Party for Equality
ToDebating the Abolition of the Grants committee.
MessagePP would be incandescent if s/he was present, but did H&S have any other advocates who wish to defend it? last chance.

Date00:21:50, August 17, 2005 CET
FromSöhne der Freiheit
ToDebating the Abolition of the Grants committee.
MessageHe confided it to me that it was his way to get socialism that didn't taste that bad to him in the government instead of the red revolution. It's pointless now that you have such a huge majority due to the inactivity bug.

Date13:19:04, August 17, 2005 CET
FromLiberal Party for Equality
ToDebating the Abolition of the Grants committee.
Messagecould we just stick to the issue? I wont have this majority forever, and I would like to know your opinion, without the implication that our party advocates communism. I am bringing this to vote in the next 24 hrs, unless some valuable objection is raised.

Date18:33:09, August 17, 2005 CET
FromSöhne der Freiheit
ToDebating the Abolition of the Grants committee.
MessageI have no objections.

Date18:44:20, August 17, 2005 CET
FromSöhne der Freiheit
ToDebating the Abolition of the Grants committee.
MessageI'd like to retract my previous statement, I failed to completely peruse your proposition, and while I support a reform in this area, I do not endorse your suggestion on how to fix the committee. The party will have to have a caucus on this issue.

Date04:29:38, August 18, 2005 CET
FromPeople's Party
ToDebating the Abolition of the Grants committee.
MessageI'm only away for a wekk, and you're trying to dismantle everything already...Nice LPE, very nice..

Anyway...the whole idea of the Grants committee is to move away from the Naanny State towards a more effective model. We're taking the expertise and effectiveness of the private sector, and combing it with the massive funds available with the government . The model we create therien is superior to the pathetic welfare state model where the govt funds and runs everything...

These short -term grants encourage responsible use of funds and channels money to areas where its is vitally needed. The end result is that those we are helping benefit far more than they would on a basic dole...

Unfortunately ever since I proposed the idea, it's been under attack from certain people on the left who say they're for the poor and all, unless the programs in question actually make a difference.
Its really low hypocrisy....

With this year's money, 80,000 plus poor kids will get upto $30,000 as a free grant when they turn 21, along with the close personal financial advice and counselling that only the private sector charities can provide. Yet the cost to us is only $34 billion in a one off payment, that will continue to give out grants forever..

That's smart policy....

Date06:46:14, August 18, 2005 CET
FromPeople's Party
ToDebating the Abolition of the Grants committee.
MessageI challenge you to name a single organization that is being overfunded, and how...

Date13:26:56, August 18, 2005 CET
FromLiberal Party for Equality
ToDebating the Abolition of the Grants committee.
MessagePP:Firstly, when I proposed this I had no idea you were away. I was fully expecting a debate on it.

Secondly, you say this year. that was 7 years ago. Not only is the stepladder foundations therefore hugely overfunded by your calculations, but many, many areas of the needy have got no help for 7 years. the sick, the elderly, the unemployed, those with learning difficulties or mental disabilities, single parent families, the list is endless. The money available for allocation by the grants committee is not being used to its full advantage in any way.

Abolishing the Grants committee does not mean an introduction of the nanny state. All I am suggesting is that we go back to the way we were doing things (OOC: using the channels set up by the game, rather than an invented one that we cannot keep track of economically). It allows us to introduce welfare bills without breaking the terms of the Hope and Spirit act, something people are already doing, but which prevents the more conscientious of us from having any say in welfare, as the grants committee has not met for seven years.

CCU: I dont see how you can misunderstand my solution. I am not setting up any alternative welfare - that will come later and will have a separate vote, and every party will be free to propose welfare measures - surely fairer than the inefficient and unaccountable way we are doing it at the moment

PP says that privatising welfare will make it more efficient. Even if this is true, what PP has forgotten is that the Grants committee that allocates money to the private charities is a government organisation and therefore equally innefficient as any other government controlled welfare programme.

The only reason that you are so hung up on this is that you have an old fashioned notion of 'the deserving poor' who you consider to be orphans and victims of disaster only, according to your allocation of money. It is truly unfair to all the other people in our country who are suffering through no fault of their own.

Date08:45:31, August 19, 2005 CET
FromPeople's Party
ToDebating the Abolition of the Grants committee.
MessageThe Stepladder Foundation was set up seven years ago to provide opportunity grants to poor children across the nation. Since it was to be self-sustaining, it was decided to let the funds accumulate value throught investing in the stockmarket. Each child would therfore receive on his 21st birthday, the funds that had accumulated in his name over the last 21 years. The first batch to be helped are already seven years into their portfolio. They will get what is theirs on their 21st.

Since the purpose is strictly defined, I don't see how the program is overfunded..infact there were funds sitting for distribution to the poor/needy with the Grants commt that never got disbursed because nobody ever came forward to propose anything. You can hardly blame me or the Grant's committee for that. You can't expectr me to come up with everything myself.

In the end we gave it away as free grants to schools and other charities.

Abolishing the Grants committee is reinforcing a different philosophy, that says that govt intervention in social relief is necessary for their benefit. Thus repealling the Grants committee is a vote for the wellfare model, the Nanny State and everything it represents.

You make a fair point, that the committee is still intervbentionist govt. However by removing govt from administering programs, we are reducing a great deal of inefficiency and waste from relief efforts. That is the crux of the debate.

I have never stated or implied a position of deserving or underdeserving poor. All I have ever said is that those who want to help themselves must be our first priority.




Date23:16:45, August 31, 2005 CET
FromLiberal Party for Equality
ToDebating the Abolition of the Grants committee.
MessageBut so many people are left out of this system because, whether it is your fault or not, the committee never meets. Therefore it is time to abolish it. In no way will this usher in a Nanny State, it will merely remove all current legislation allowing new legislation to be formed by the Senate, in the normal fashion. If we don't want nanny, we won't get it.

Date02:06:36, September 02, 2005 CET
FromCommonwealth Workers Army
ToDebating the Abolition of the Grants committee.
MessageWhile the current model is far from perfect, the AAP would hope that, if this Bill passes, serious attempts will be made to reform this issue, in short order.

The AAP is torn over this issue - some advocating sticking with this course because it is not 'broken', others praising the LPE langauge that promises "all parties will be free to propose and vote in welfare bills".

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Voting

Vote Seats
yes
   

Total Seats: 101

no
 

Total Seats: 30

abstain
    

Total Seats: 84


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