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Bill: First Ravenstijn Act
Details
Submitted by[?]: Txurruka/Aperribai/Mayoz's OPX
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 2491
Description[?]:
| The usual OPX fare. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The citizens' right to assemble in public.
Old value:: There are no restrictions on the right of citizens to assemble in groups.
Current: There are no restrictions on the right of citizens to assemble in groups.
Proposed: The police may disperse a group without giving any reason.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change Curfew policy (curfew time to be determined in the bill description).
Old value:: No curfew policies may be established.
Current: No curfew policies may be established.
Proposed: No-one may use streets or public property beyond the curfew time.
Article 3
Proposal[?] to change The nation's defence industry.
Old value:: The state owns national defence industries but these exist alongside privately owned defence industries.
Current: Defence industries are privately owned and not subsidised.
Proposed: The state owns all defence industries.
Article 4
Proposal[?] to change Health care policy.
Old value:: Health care is private, but is paid for by the state for people with low incomes.
Current: Health care is entirely private.
Proposed: Health care is entirely public and free; private clinics are banned.
Article 5
Proposal[?] to change Government-issued identity card policy.
Old value:: Citizens are not issued with identity cards.
Current: All citizens are issued with identity cards but are not required to carry them.
Proposed: All citizens are issued with identity cards and are required to carry them at all times.
Article 6
Proposal[?] to change The nation's policy on the separation of the police and the military.
Old value:: A civilian police force is in place and the military is not allowed to play any part in it.
Current: A civilian police force is in place and the military is not allowed to play any part in it.
Proposed: The military acts as a de-facto police force, with powers of arrest.
Article 7
Proposal[?] to change National service.
Old value:: There shall be no mandatory military or civilian national service.
Current: All adults upon completion of schooling must serve a term of civilian national service.
Proposed: All adults upon completion of schooling must serve a term in the military.
Article 8
Proposal[?] to change The education system.
Old value:: Education is private, but the government issues vouchers to pay for the schooling of disadvantaged children.
Current: Education is entirely private and schools run on a for-profit basis.
Proposed: Education is entirely public and free; private schools are banned.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 04:18:41, November 25, 2007 CET | From | I need to make new party | To | Debating the First Ravenstijn Act |
| Message | Why do you still make huge bills like this... When people vote they're reputation gets damaged ether way.... if they vote no they are denying public and free health care if they vote for it they are turning us into a police state.. if they dont vote it hurts them too since they become lazy and inactive. |
| Date | 04:45:08, November 25, 2007 CET | From | I need to make new party | To | Debating the First Ravenstijn Act |
| Message | This is an excerpt from OP past statements in my UIF Bill: XII "The government controls the police and military but currently they cannot work together. Each represent a rather sizeable coercive force on their own. Combined with a powermad lunatic at the helm, who knows what could happen? Say we change the laws regarding freedom of assembly to the point where public gatherings can be broken up for any reason (presumably under the guise of "public safety" and claiming legitimate protesters are "rioting"). Futher say the military and police are effectively one force in domestic matters. Who could stand up against that? At least as it stands now we can wave a couple of pieces of paper in front of potential lunatics (looking at you UIF) that will hopefully contain said lunatics." Hahah well you seem to be a very strange fellow... What are you doing now allowing any form of people assembly to be broken up without reason... To give a set curfew time, forced to carry around paper and serve in the military against there will. What was also strange is you support Nationalized Defense Industries here but in my Bills you where against them.... Very strange Ill let the other parties put the pieces together |
| Date | 07:37:00, November 25, 2007 CET | From | I need to make new party | To | Debating the First Ravenstijn Act |
| Message | Also how the hell did education and health care become private... How did anyone let this happen... Baltusia has always held Education and Health Care to the responsibility of the government... Parties have always agreed to this... How could anyone let this happen... Anyhow I would support this bill if It didnt take away personal freedoms and rights. Also identity cards turn us from living breathing individuals into bar codes.. This isnt 1940 Germany... I dont want to walk around a corner in the capital and be asked for my "papers' from quasi military police officers because I was outside beyond the curfew time... What is this a fascist state. |
| Date | 07:38:36, November 25, 2007 CET | From | I need to make new party | To | Debating the First Ravenstijn Act |
| Message | Why would anyone vote for this bill without debate first... its very controversial on what it does. Also liberal party did you not vote for the bill that made Health Care private in the first place?? Why are you voting to make it public again and now taking away rights and turning us into a police state. |
| Date | 09:25:50, November 25, 2007 CET | From |  Txurruka/Aperribai/Mayoz's OPX | To | Debating the First Ravenstijn Act |
| Message | "Why do you still make huge bills like this... " More or less for the reasons you outlined. We're very aware of the ramifications of our bills. Needless to say, most other parties won't struggle to vote against this bill. "What was also strange is you support Nationalized Defense Industries here but in my Bills you where against them...." Actually, the OP has always been for nationalised defence. We've never been for public AND private defence companies. "Ill let the other parties put the pieces together" The other parties are aware of our ideological change which came about for various reasons. Chief among them is the fact that we are now the only political party in the country (possibly in the world) that has been floated on the stock exchange. For us, power = money and money = benefit for shareholders. "How did anyone let this happen..." Because the liberal parties in the cabinet you approve of made it so. "Also liberal party did you not vote for the bill that made Health Care private in the first place?? Why are you voting to make it public again and now taking away rights and turning us into a police state." Because that's what the Liberals in particular do. |
| Date | 19:28:05, November 25, 2007 CET | From | I need to make new party | To | Debating the First Ravenstijn Act |
| Message | ........ Okay pretty straightforward... Well why are we still paying for Health and Social Services 45,000,000,000 BLD if Health Care is private... We dont seem to be providing too many social services and are there that many low income families in this country that we have to still pay that huge expense for them for Health Care??? Just shows that taking away public health Care is a terrible idea. We are paying the most on our budget for Education and Culture 90,000,000,000 BLD yet it is also private so libertarians who say privatize all Public Services to save cash seem to be utterly wrong. Anyhow just admit it you are now trying to turn Baltusia into a Corporate Police State. The only reason you stay in power is the ignorance of other parties and the strength of your own and ally parties. Plus the people have been dumbed down and turned into nothing more then Mindless Consumers. You want the populace to be scared and living in a state of fear and paranoia... You want them to be Ignorant and not health for that way they are easy to control... if you had a confident health and well educated populace they would... well they would be demanding things and thats not good. |
| Date | 21:03:11, November 25, 2007 CET | From | Elite Sinn Fein | To | Debating the First Ravenstijn Act |
| Message | "........ Okay pretty straightforward... Well why are we still paying for Health and Social Services 45,000,000,000 BLD if Health Care is private... We dont seem to be providing too many social services and are there that many low income families in this country that we have to still pay that huge expense for them for Health Care??? Just shows that taking away public health Care is a terrible idea. We are paying the most on our budget for Education and Culture 90,000,000,000 BLD yet it is also private so libertarians who say privatize all Public Services to save cash seem to be utterly wrong" Actually, we have been trying to change how much we spend. Unfortunately, you can blame the orange party for not alowing us to be consistant. |
| Date | 21:18:23, November 25, 2007 CET | From | I need to make new party | To | Debating the First Ravenstijn Act |
| Message | Well we have a surplus in the budget already why not just give Nationalized Health care I dont understand it. |
| Date | 21:40:52, November 25, 2007 CET | From | Txurruka/Aperribai/Mayoz's OPX | To | Debating the First Ravenstijn Act |
| Message | "Anyhow just admit it you are now trying to turn Baltusia into a Corporate Police State." No, we're trying to pull in fascist votes. We understand that we won't turn Baltusia into a fascist hellhole but we're damn popular for trying. Who said anything about us being corporate anyway? Extreme regulator ring any bells? |
| Date | 21:45:32, November 25, 2007 CET | From | Txurruka/Aperribai/Mayoz's OPX | To | Debating the First Ravenstijn Act |
| Message | Ok, damn popular is probably a bit of an exaggeration. "Unfortunately, you can blame the orange party for not alowing us to be consistant." If you can pass a cabinet bill, you can pass a budget. Don't blame your lack of organisation on us. "Well we have a surplus in the budget already why not just give Nationalized Health care I dont understand it." Because they're libertarians. By definition, they're against public health care. |
| Date | 21:50:33, November 25, 2007 CET | From | United Independent Front | To | Debating the First Ravenstijn Act |
| Message | Well Im not voting for this.. I support your education health; and defense industries policy but not anything else... The Military can back up Police in times of crisis thats about it... so I will vote against this |
| Date | 03:25:08, November 26, 2007 CET | From | Paraplu party | To | Debating the First Ravenstijn Act |
| Message | actually i have changed my mind on this bill, because it seems I have some disagreements with this bill, mainly the cerfew, witch I am strongly against on national basis. Also, the military thing I am rather against. |
| Date | 10:24:34, November 28, 2007 CET | From | Revolutionary Democratic Socialists | To | Debating the First Ravenstijn Act |
| Message | " Who said anything about us being corporate anyway? " OPX is listed on the stock exchange therfore, your political party is more than pro-corporate, your "party" IS a corporation! |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes |
Total Seats: 136 | |||
| no |
Total Seats: 77 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 87 |
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| Random quote: "Judge me all you want, just keep the verdict to yourself." - From a Winston advertisement |