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Bill: Abortion Act II, 2102
Details
Submitted by[?]: Liberal Imperialist Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: March 2103
Description[?]:
| As abortion leads to the premature ending of human life, the only reason that the Liberal Imperialist Party sees for abortion is to protect the life of the mother. We see no need for children to be aborted, when they could quite easily be born and then put up for adoption by a mother who wants nothing to do with her child. This proposal will, therefore, not force mothers to keep children they do not want, and at the same time will never cause the loss of human life unless necessary to save another human life. ADDENDUM The mother may retain anenimity if she chooses to put her child up for adoption, meaning that the state is not allowed to disclose the name or whereabouts of the mother to the child at any point during his / her life. Although this is not ideal, it is better than the child being kiled. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Policy on the legality of abortions
Old value:: Abortion is allowed during the first trimester.
Current: Abortion is allowed during the first and second trimesters.
Proposed: Abortions are only allowed in medical emergencies.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 12:35:45, August 28, 2005 CET | From |  RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | Strongly against. I believe women should have the right to choose. And I quite frankly am shocked that you would not even allow women whose pregnancy was caused by rape to have an abortion. |
| Date | 12:53:56, August 28, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | It isnt the child's fault the woman was raped. |
| Date | 17:06:16, August 28, 2005 CET | From | Civic Democratic Party | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | We stand firmly against this. The right to choose whether to have an abortion should be left up to those who are most effected by it. This reneging of current rights is outrageous. |
| Date | 17:08:36, August 28, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | "It isnt the child's fault the woman was raped." Then what about the detrimental impact on the mothers mental health of not being allowed an abortion and having to bear a child only to have it taken away? |
| Date | 17:14:09, August 28, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | "We stand firmly against this. The right to choose whether to have an abortion should be left up to those who are most effected by it." I completely agree with you. However, the child to be aborted cannot be asked, so we shall just assume that the child does not want to be aborted, m'yes? "Then what about the detrimental impact on the mothers mental health of not being allowed an abortion and having to bear a child only to have it taken away?" It will only be taken away if the mother DOESNT WANT IT. |
| Date | 18:06:57, August 28, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | He obviously means the mother... |
| Date | 18:07:46, August 28, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | ""Then what about the detrimental impact on the mothers mental health of not being allowed an abortion and having to bear a child only to have it taken away?" It will only be taken away if the mother DOESNT WANT IT." Do you have any idea of the effect on the mother's mental health to know that she is bearing the child of the guy who raped here? |
| Date | 18:08:15, August 28, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | *raped here |
| Date | 18:09:23, August 28, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | Also on this addendum: "The mother may retain anenimity if she chooses to put her child up for adoption, meaning that the state is not allowed to disclose the name or whereabouts of the mother to the child at any point during his / her life. Although this is not ideal, it is better than the child being kiled." That might lead to children being taken away from their mother without her consent. That used to happen a lot with women who were not married and gave birth in a hospital run by a religious order. |
| Date | 18:09:55, August 28, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | OOC: I believe that still happens today in some parts of France... |
| Date | 18:21:35, August 28, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | No it cant. "The mother MAY retain anenimity if she CHOOSES to put her child up for adoption" Stop scaremongering and making up rubbish, and debate the proposals actually on the page. |
| Date | 18:22:54, August 28, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | "He obviously means the mother..." So you do not think that the child to be aborted is affected by the abortion? |
| Date | 19:14:22, August 28, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | "No it cant. "The mother MAY retain anenimity if she CHOOSES to put her child up for adoption" Stop scaremongering and making up rubbish, and debate the proposals actually on the page." I know it says that. But think of the so-called "X" mothers who sign an "X" on the document in which she "chooses" to put her child up for adoption. Anyone can put that "X" on the document, or the mother can be forced to put her child up for adoption. |
| Date | 19:15:13, August 28, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | ""He obviously means the mother..." So you do not think that the child to be aborted is affected by the abortion?" In the early stages of pregnancy we do not speak of a "child", we do not even speak of life! |
| Date | 22:04:42, August 28, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | So are you saying, my Rt Hon friend that you would not have minded being aborted because at that time you were not "life"? Of course not! This silly pedanticism doesnt change the fact that in aborting a child / foetus / whatever name you want to give it to disguise what you're really doing you're still denying it the oppurtunity to live what otherwise would be a normal and healthy life. "I know it says that. But think of the so-called "X" mothers who sign an "X" on the document in which she "chooses" to put her child up for adoption. Anyone can put that "X" on the document, or the mother can be forced to put her child up for adoption." ...that's called "fraud", "conspiracy" and "deception" and all three of them are illegal anyway. |
| Date | 22:09:57, August 28, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | Yes, but since it was signed with an "X" you can't do something about it before it is too late. "So are you saying, my Rt Hon friend that you would not have minded being aborted because at that time you were not "life"? Of course not! This silly pedanticism doesnt change the fact that in aborting a child / foetus / whatever name you want to give it to disguise what you're really doing you're still denying it the oppurtunity to live what otherwise would be a normal and healthy life." I believe partially in pre-determination. ;-) |
| Date | 00:03:39, August 29, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | "Yes, but since it was signed with an "X" you can't do something about it before it is too late." They could do this anyway under current law (ie adoption law). "I believe partially in pre-determination. ;-)" ... ... ... so you're saying it would happen anyway therefore we should allow it, you take no responsibility for your actions because "it will happen anyway" and in short you dont believe anything you do has any affect. Riiiiight. Why are you in politics? |
| Date | 10:26:24, August 29, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | That is not what I meant. ;-) I strongly believe that it should be up to each woman to decide for herself whether she wants to bear a child or not. |
| Date | 13:37:01, August 29, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | I strongly believe that no one should be killed without good reason. I dont see there being good reason if there's another alternative, ie. adoption. |
| Date | 18:38:56, August 29, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | Abortion is not killing as you can only kill human beings. ;-) |
| Date | 19:02:10, August 29, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Abortion Act II, 2102 |
| Message | Well: 1) That isnt true. You can kill animals, birds, fish etc 2) Since the foetus will develop into a human being the end result is that you've killed them. *digs in for another stupid argument of pedantics* |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes | Total Seats: 163 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 218 | |||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 68 |
| Random fact: Players consent to the reasonable and predictable consequences of the role-play they consent to. For example, players who role-play their characters as committing criminal offences should expect those characters to experience the predictable judicial consequences of that. |
| Random quote: "Any law which violates the inalienable rights of man is essentially unjust and tyrannical; it is not a law at all." - Maximilien Robespierre |