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Bill: Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill
Details
Submitted by[?]: Pan-Sekowo Freedom Alliance
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: May 2515
Description[?]:
| Thought we could do it here. Below is a list of demands that the DSP has come up with for the APP to end the civil war, and restore peace to Sekowo. We comend the DSP for coming to the table and negotiating. Below is there demands. I'd like to see what everyone thinks of them. The social saftey net thing would probably be welfare. Minimum wage etc. The PSFVP is happy to do this, though we would prefer we keep the unemployment benefit as it is, where the benefit is for a set amount of time, just to ensure that no one can use the benefit as an excuse not to work. "Key National indistrys" refers mostly to water and power, and thus the comprimise would be a mixed economy, where the nation owns a part of all services, while private companys operate along side it. So here are the demands 1. The PSA shall be allowed to continue on as a non-government military force. -2. A social safety net [details to be discussed] shall always remain in place. -3. The Federal government shall at all times remain in control of of some part of the vital industries of Sekowo. -4. Jiraiya Heavy Industries not be punished in any way and be allowed to continue on as a government defence contractor. If this was the peace treaty today, would it be acceptable, or do members of the SPA have requests of their own. The PSFVP would demand that Thor's Hammer and the nuclear reactor underneath Karmensai be given up by the DSP, to national control. That is simply too much power for any non government force to wield. We would also request that no more secret projects such as this are hidden from the government. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 08:02:10, December 15, 2007 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | The SCP's militia should be added to number one as well as the PSA. We are willing to compromise on Thor's Hammer by giving joint control to the government, though our technicians know the most about it and are thusly the most qualified to run it. As for the nuclear reactor we are willing to use it to provide peaceful power for the Kasmenai metropolitan area. |
| Date | 08:12:24, December 15, 2007 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | The following is a list of projects that the DSP has been working on secretly, the list contains both those known and unknown to non-DSP parties and/or individuals. 1. Thor's Hammer; Thor's Hammer, as is now known is a large Railgun built into the DSP headquarters. It is comprised of four 45 ft turreting barrels. 2. Odin's Thunder; Odin's Thunder is a project the DSP has been working on for several years. The main purpose has been to create a non-nuclear weapon capable of producing a powerful EMP wave large enough to knock out the electricity and computers of a city sized area. 3. Fantme; We would prefer to not go into the exact details, but the Fantme Squadron is comprised of elite pilots who pilot specially equipped stealth versions of three different kinds of fighter jets. |
| Date | 09:32:47, December 15, 2007 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | We do not find article 3 acceptable, unless "some vital industries" means simply the military and the post office. We may or may not have a problem with article 2, depending on the details which are worked out. |
| Date | 12:25:25, December 15, 2007 CET | From |  Chattes en Chaleur | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | CeC believes this is a good start and urges all sides to negotiate in good faith. |
| Date | 13:06:17, December 15, 2007 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | Seeing as the APP are capitulating, we find no reason to grant them concessions. If anything, the Sekowo's People's Alliance should be making demands. |
| Date | 13:08:44, December 15, 2007 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | We should be straitforward with this: We will not accept any treaty which requires the Normand Pluralist Party to submit to political ideologies contrary to its own in the Folkstmma. We will gladly accept any other (reasonable) request in a treaty; we have no wish for the fighting to continue. |
| Date | 15:32:01, December 15, 2007 CET | From | Revolutionary State Socialist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | We can always break our treaties just for you. |
| Date | 23:54:33, December 15, 2007 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | Those are our basic conditions. We could have included more, but we did not as an act of good faith. |
| Date | 01:31:44, December 16, 2007 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | The APP was on the losing side of the conflict, even with the USMC. Without the USMC, they have no chance of resisting. We do not much feel like making concessions. |
| Date | 01:38:31, December 16, 2007 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | Losing side, hardly. True your side had a slight troop advantage, but believe me, we were hardly on the losing side. Besides, if we were actually losing, we'd have already dragged all of you down with us. |
| Date | 01:48:52, December 16, 2007 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | We are not convinced. |
| Date | 01:58:24, December 16, 2007 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | If we were truly losing we would have called upon the Pan-Terran Red Army for support. As it stands only a few soldiers from that organization actually participated in any way, and those were simply stand alones. |
| Date | 04:30:55, December 16, 2007 CET | From | Revolutionary State Socialist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | The USMC troops never even engaged in the war, other then the desertion at the start, but thats not even a battle. The civil war really never fired up, so we cannot say who would have won. |
| Date | 05:19:28, December 16, 2007 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | We will not concede to the APP more than they had to begin with. That would just be stupid. |
| Date | 05:24:50, December 16, 2007 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | Any military consequences will be on your head than. |
| Date | 05:52:24, December 16, 2007 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | What military consequences? The Sekowo People's Alliance will simply not allow the APP to dismantle the democratic government of Sekowo, regardless. And that is the only repercussion which might concern us. |
| Date | 06:07:59, December 16, 2007 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | The rest of the SPA is willing to accept our terms. |
| Date | 06:41:58, December 16, 2007 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | We have not heard the Archonic Union, Helenic-Democratic Union, or the Independence Coalition speak on the matter, though the IC's willingness to accept your cabinet proposal may be telling of their stance |
| Date | 06:58:25, December 16, 2007 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | OOC: Archonic Union of Politeia Hellenic-Democratic Liberal Party |
| Date | 08:40:13, December 16, 2007 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | OOC: I realized my mistake as soon as I posted. I'm tired. And I left off the "of Politeia" on purpose; the Archonic Union here in Sekowo is the Archonic Union. I meant to say the Helenic-Democratic Liberals. |
| Date | 10:44:31, December 16, 2007 CET | From | Pan-Sekowo Freedom Alliance | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | OOC: Apologies I have not been active much in this thread, reallife interfered. A couple of things. DSP, if all you had planned was the pan terran red army as a fail safe, yeah you would have lost the war. The PSFVP feels, and this is important for both the DSP and the NPP to accept, that it would have certainly emerged the victor of the civil war. It is important you understand this, not so that we may strong arm you, but that you understand that when we feel comfortable giving the DSP assurances on welfar etc, it is not because we fear a war, it is because we feel that is what is best for Sekowo. A mixed econopmy, mainly privitised but with essential services (meaning to us, water, military, energy and education) provided by the state for anyone who wants it, is the best of both worlds. It assures a heavyily comeptitive, and thus responsive and dynamic economy, while ensuring that those underpriviliged in society are not deprived of essentials. We are also more than happy to grant the welfare laws, as long as any unemployment benefit be for a set period of time only. The PSFVP will not allow "dole bludgers", free loaders not contributing to society but living off their benefit. we are more than happy to allow the PSA and SCP militia to exist, that we may all feel safe knowing we can defend ourselves if the other side renegs on this deal after the war. We are also happy with the joint control of Thors Hammer, we would also like joint government control of other special projects. We view the DSP's decision to crerate such things before the war in secret as an affront to the spirit of Sekowan Government, and the cooperative nature of the particracy in which we govern. We ask that from now on DSP be more open about such things, as trust is the most important part of healing the nation so divided by Civil War. We are more than happy to accept all the above demands, if it means peace in Sekowo. We do however, have a final demand, though we ask it more as a sign of good faith, and repentance, that we may all move forward togeither. If it is not agreed to, we will be ok with it, and will still strive towards peace. We would ask that the DSP's founder, a very rich man, accept a level of personal responsibility for the war by footing the bill for reconstruction of the capital city, so damaged by the effects of the war. |
| Date | 12:46:00, December 16, 2007 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | We would like peace, but any promise from the Normand Pluralist Party to vote as the APP wishes would be a betrayal of the people of Sekowo, and would defeat the purpose for which we joined the Sekowo People's Alliance in the first place. |
| Date | 19:45:27, December 16, 2007 CET | From | Sekowan Communist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | OOC: My apologies for not being more involved. I've been sick the past few days, and have had tons of stuff to do for school. IC: The SCP wishes to remind the "SPA" that the PTRA is willing to assist the APP should peace efforts fail. We view vital industries of Sekowo as energy, education, military, water, phone service, and the internet (with net neutrality laws in place). We also might submit to a mixed economy if sufficiently stringent environmental protections were put in place. |
| Date | 20:58:50, December 16, 2007 CET | From | Pan-Sekowo Freedom Alliance | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | SCP, your threats of calling on a foreign, anti democratic force to help you not only fails to intimidate us, but reveals why the PSFVP considers your party to be the least likely to negotiate succesfuly. Be warned now, and pay close attention. These peace talks are not a way for you to achieve a socialist economy, it is not a place for you to exert control over the folkstamma. It is a place where we work togeither to save Sekowo from what will happen if the war continues. If the talks fail, and you call the PTRA, we promise you there won't be much of a Sekowo left after the war. We urge you to be reasonable then in your demands. The DSP has already given us a fine compromise in their definition (Energy, military, education and water) of what constitutes essential services. This definition is, you will note, a compromise, one DSP is commended for. If you are not willing to make the same comproise, offer an alternative one. Internet is hardly a vital service, people will not starve or go cold with out it. This peace talks are not about you geting the nation you want. That shall be determined in the folkstmma bhy way of voting on bills. This is about finding a compromised ground on which we can all agree, so that we may continue our stuggle over what the direction of Sekowo should be in the folkstamma, and not armed in the streets. stop the threats, start compromising. Everyone is sick of this war, and those that are holding up the peace talks are risking severe damage to Sekowo. |
| Date | 23:46:35, December 16, 2007 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | The P-TRA would not have been our last thing to do, only an option if we felt we needed more man power. We were more just making the point that we had'nt called them in. Also, since Kasmenai is Otaru Komei's adopted home town/city, he's already started helping the rebuilding process. We would ask, perhaps in jest, perhaps not, if the rest of the APP and SPA would have a problem with us simply warring with those who stand in the way of peace, *cough*NPP*cough*. |
| Date | 00:10:56, December 17, 2007 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | How would you war with the NPP? Kill of civilians? We don't keep a traditional militia. |
| Date | 01:20:37, December 17, 2007 CET | From | Pan-Sekowo Freedom Alliance | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | DSP, we underastand and accept your useage of the PTRA in this discussion, just not the SCP's Anyway, lets get a move on with this process, do you want to draft up a peace treaty, and the SPA will see if we like it? Meanwhiile, SPA members, any demands you want made? Our side hasn't really made any yet. |
| Date | 01:47:12, December 17, 2007 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | @NPP We are not in control of all equipment, it's not our fault if a cruise missile should accidentally be launched at one of your HQs. OOC: I was'nt serious.. |
| Date | 03:51:00, December 17, 2007 CET | From | Pan-Sekowo Freedom Alliance | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | Restating: Anyway, lets get a move on with this process, do you want to draft up a peace treaty, and the SPA will see if we like it? Meanwhiile, SPA members, any demands you want made? Our side hasn't really made any yet. |
| Date | 04:33:26, December 17, 2007 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | DSP, it is a simple matter for the Normand Pluralist Party to decentralize further. Headquarters may end up in civilian homes, if you continue to act so beligerently. PSFVP: We have two demands: 1. That democracy be retained in Sekowo and not be violated, period. 2. That we retain the right to vote as we feel most benefits Sekowo (this is arguably redundant with 1). |
| Date | 10:11:15, December 17, 2007 CET | From | Pan-Sekowo Freedom Alliance | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | We said SPA members, not people abstaining frm service due to their misunderstanding of events :P But your demands are noted. |
| Date | 10:22:53, December 17, 2007 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | There was no misunderstanding And we don't believe you have the authority to single-handedly oust us from the SPA. |
| Date | 02:46:51, December 18, 2007 CET | From | Sekowan Communist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | No one else seems to like you... |
| Date | 07:05:02, December 18, 2007 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | Certain information and allegations have been brought to our attention. Because of this we must convene and discuss further actions. |
| Date | 09:10:06, December 18, 2007 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | Communists, we are uncertain as to what significance your statement is suppose to have for us. |
| Date | 11:29:05, December 18, 2007 CET | From | Pan-Sekowo Freedom Alliance | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | allegations? The PSFVP is interested... |
| Date | 01:27:20, December 19, 2007 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | We have recieved information that the SPA was in talks with Beiteynu to buy a bio/chem weapon to use against the APP within Sekowo. |
| Date | 03:16:02, December 19, 2007 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | The Normand Pluralist Party had no knowledge of this. |
| Date | 04:49:49, December 19, 2007 CET | From | Pan-Sekowo Freedom Alliance | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | The PSFVP is open about this, we asked them for any deterent they couldoffer when we found the usmchad nuclearweapons, weare more than happy to turn the control of theweapon over to the government. We had it only for deterent purposes, when faced with the prospect of the other side of the civil war having nuclear weapons. We hope other parties can appreciate our fears in this matter. Once the war isover, we will hapily give the weapon to the government |
| Date | 04:52:45, December 19, 2007 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | The APP made it abundantly clear we would never use a weapon of mass destruction. The USMC had obtained a nuclear weapon to place under their secret facility, of which only they know where is, to be used if aggressors, domestic or foreign tried to steal the technology, as a last resort. OOC: Apparently you got betrayed to, since the party that was suppose to deliver it took of with both the weapon and the money. |
| Date | 04:53:45, December 19, 2007 CET | From | Pan-Sekowo Freedom Alliance | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | We will also note it was made clear during negotiations the weapon was for dterent purposes only, and was unlikely to be used. Any attempt's to make it look other wise are clearly a smear. |
| Date | 04:56:24, December 19, 2007 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | Regardless of what it was meant for biological and/or chemical weapons are stricly against the law in Sekowo, war time or not. |
| Date | 11:00:16, December 19, 2007 CET | From | Pan-Sekowo Freedom Alliance | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | not at thetime of the sale they weren't. OOC:Atleast, i think they wern't, we changed the law to legalise them for military purposes a while back. |
| Date | 05:34:12, December 22, 2007 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | The use of them or intential use of them is. True the production of them was made legal (to our gprotest), however that's it, further more the law may have said purchasing of them was illegal, we're not sure though. |
| Date | 04:09:22, January 03, 2008 CET | From | Brmékai Krsyiji Prta | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | OOC: I understand this is probably not of much interest to you now, but the weapon stolen by my group was an extra one stolen during the false raid as well as the one given to the P-SFVP. As far as we're are concerned then the P-SFVP recieved the weapon, unless there was other complications we were unaware of. |
| Date | 04:03:04, January 11, 2008 CET | From | Pan-Sekowo Freedom Alliance | To | Debating the Civil War Peace Talks Voting Bill |
| Message | We have the weapon then? Cool. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 448 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 254 | |||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 48 |
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