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Bill: Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)

Details

Submitted by[?]: Normand Pluralist Party

Status[?]: passed

Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.

Voting deadline: February 2515

Description[?]:

With the failure of the Folkstamma to agree to the methodologies proposed by the DSP, we are proposing a new census.

This census shall be conducted by the political parties of Sekowo who will survey their supporters and report the result back to the Folkstamma. As such, this census should be highly representative, accurate (because of the need for internal consistency within parties), and fairly inexpensive, as the political parties of Sekowo will be subsidizing it.

OOC:
Every party will report the demographics of its constituency which will represent the portion of Sekowo who favoured that party in the previous elections (I will run several surveys to verify this, and others are welcome to, as well). Any party may choose to allow another party to determine their demographics for them, if they wish, or to opt out entirely, in which case their constituency will simply be considered an average of the others.

This should be perfectly fair to all involved.

IC:
We propose the following categories:
Age:
-Under 15
-15 to 25
-26 to 45
-46 to 64
-65 and older

Ethnicity:
-Amerindian/Kli'kut
-Asiatic/Gao-Showa
-Black
-Caucasian
-Mixed
...Latino
...Other Mixed
-Other

Gender:
-Female
-Male
-Other

Households:
-Family
-Shared
-Single

Income (Annual):
-Under 5,000
-5,001 - 10,000
-10,001 - 15,000
-15,001 - 25,000
-25,001 - 30,000
-30,001 - 50,000
-50,001 - 100,000
-Over 100,000

Native Language:
-Davostana
-English
-French
-Gao-Showan
-Greek
-Latin
-Modern Sekowan
-Normand
-Other
-Pailesian

Marital Status:
-Civil Union
-Co-habitation ("Concubinage", in the French) or Common Law Marriage
-Married
-Single

Religion:
-Atheist
-Agnostic
-Bah'
-Buddhism
-Christianity
...Catholic
...Protestant
......Lutheran
......Non-denominational
......Other Protestant
...Other
-Hellenic Polytheism
-Hinduism
-Islam
...Sunni
...Shi'a
...Other Muslim
-Jainism
-Jewish
-Native Beliefs
-Other
-Satanism
-Shinto
-Unitarian Universalism

Sexuality:
-Asexual
-Bisexual
-Heterosexual
-Homosexual
-Other


This census will replace the earlier DSP census.

Proposals

Debate

These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:

Date17:02:19, January 06, 2008 CET
FromNormand Pluralist Party
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageWe welcome suggestions as to ways we should simplify or expand this census. We are trying to strike a balance between detail and simplicity.

Date20:28:26, January 06, 2008 CET
FromFree Democratic Party
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageWe would support this proposal, hopefully we will have some seats in the Folkstamma when this goes to vote.

Date23:59:16, January 06, 2008 CET
FromCommunist Party of Sekowo
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageWouldn't common-law be the correct term to use by cohabitural? And don't we have civil unions as well as marriages in our system of laws?

Another thing, has the Ethnicity really been highly thought out? I suggest if there is a great differences in cultures then there might be different nations our country occupies. We should take this into consideration, what's the dominate ethnic group, IE made up the former, current ruling class. The nations should then be part of regions divided up to fit in with the game, and the make up these nations would then have to be considered beforehand as a census may run into conflict with this, whats the dominate religion of these different nations dominate ethnic group and language. Do the nations match with the Regions map, do some nations match up and others don't or no . This should be considered first I think to not contradict ourselves in the future. We should be more extensive.

Date00:07:17, January 07, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageWe don't support this.

Besides, we, through a loop hole have power over the census, since we created the original one and got it passed.

Further more the DSP will not recognize any further census's as valid.

Date03:38:14, January 07, 2008 CET
FromCommunist Party of Sekowo
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageWe don't require the Democratic Socialist Party to recognize a census for the new census to be valid. The Democratic Socialist Party appointed persons to the Census Committee in a politically motivated way an investigation will prove the corruption by the Democratic Socialist Party who misused Public funds to produce a fraudulent Census..

Date05:01:29, January 07, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageThe Democratic Socialist's party is the largest arty in Sekowo (32 seats more than anyone at the least), the Head of State is a DSP member and we created the original legislation for it, so yes, you do need our recognition.

Date05:40:30, January 07, 2008 CET
FromSekowan Communist Party
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageThe comment about concubinage can be removed. Also, add non-denominational under protestant. I don't think it fair to class them in with those fucking insane restorationists.

Date05:41:57, January 07, 2008 CET
FromSekowan Communist Party
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageAnd I forgot, there was nothing in the last bill about the Head of State needing to approve the census.

Date06:29:01, January 07, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageEven though we're going to vote against this because we simply don't want any more census's period..

We may change our mind if you use our original census, though we would be willing to allow sexuality categories be changed to;

-Asexual
-Bisexual
-Heterosexual
-Homosexual
-Other
-Transsexual

Date07:22:25, January 07, 2008 CET
FromCommunist Party of Sekowo
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageWhy are you so obsessed about asexuals and transexuals? Transexuals fit under bisexual or homosexual. And noone declares themselves asexual because when I last checked there were no plants considered citizens.What would be considered other? Theres no others.

Date07:23:45, January 07, 2008 CET
FromCommunist Party of Sekowo
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageEither you do it with your gender, with another gender or both. Noone is asexual because noone can reproduce by themselves.

Date07:27:25, January 07, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageAsexual has two meaning.
There is the biological one that means creatures capable of reproduction by themselves.
There is also a sexuality meaning, referring to people who have no sexual impulses/desires.

Transsexuals refer to anyone whom is not the gender they identify with fully yet, which can be years.

Date07:57:12, January 07, 2008 CET
FromCommunist Party of Sekowo
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageRegardless if someone agrees with their gender or not its the parts given at birth that determines your gender. And regardless wouldn't that go under gender rather than sexuality. I do not support inclusion for a group of well financed homosexuals who want to chop off their penises or dig out their vaginas through expensive surgeries.

And Asexual should not be on this list, if they don't feel like answering the question they can simply leave it blank.

Date08:37:28, January 07, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageAsexuals are people with no sexual preference and our an established group who make up around 1% of the population.

Transsexual, in the sexuality term can mean someone whom is not the gender they identify with yet, or someone who prefers to physically remain whatever gender they are, but identifies with another gender.

Date16:28:14, January 07, 2008 CET
FromNormand Pluralist Party
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageSCP: Technically, most Restorationists are "Other Christian" and not "Other Protestant", so they would not fall in the same category as the non-denominational Protestants. However, if it's that important to you, we'll add the additional category. Let us know.

DSP: If you would vote in favour of the bill, we will add all of the sexual categories you have posted here but transexual, as we feel this is a gender, not a sexuality. If you're really insistent, we'll add transexual to the gender category. We will do this if you promise to vote for the bill once it has been changed thus. We otherwise oppose the inclusion of these categories, and would thus otherwise not include them.

Date16:39:54, January 07, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageI have to ask a question here.

How do we keep parties from just basically being overtly extreme, for instance, I'll use myself as the example, the DSP, which has about 20-21 million voters, what if we decide they are all 20 year old transexual Amerindians that prescribe to the Xenodharma religon/ideology?

Date16:42:29, January 07, 2008 CET
FromNormand Pluralist Party
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageWell, think about it. Do you really want to claim that there isn't a single heterosexual in your party? What would that say about your representation of the people of Sekowo? It will be the desire to be considered reasonable that should encourage people to fashion an intelligent constituency.

The numbers you post will represent exactly the portion of the population that supports you. If those numbers seem absurd, everyone else in Sekowo will have the right to call you on it in RP and argue that you represent only a very small segment of the population, and not most Sekowans at large.

Does this make sense?

Date16:46:24, January 07, 2008 CET
FromNormand Pluralist Party
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageAlso, we highly recommend that individuals look at Sekowo's history (though we wont bind anyone to it if they really dislike it) as well as other demographic information. We would encourage questions and responses during this period so that we end up with a strong, fulfilling, democratic result.

Matter of fact, we think we willl remove the age category, as Particracy actually generates this information itself. It might do the same for income... I'll have to check.

Date16:47:42, January 07, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageWell, like I said, I was using an extreme example, and I meant for all parties.

But, I suppose if there are safeguards in place, that makes it slightly more palatable.

Date00:33:08, January 08, 2008 CET
FromSekowan Communist Party
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageNPP: I guess that's acceptable, but it's always been my understanding that if you're not Catholic or Orthodox, you're Protestant, and that restorationism is a sect of Protestantism. But w/e.

Date04:50:12, January 08, 2008 CET
FromCommunist Party of Sekowo
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageWhy does transsexual need to be included. The driver liscene doesn't have an option for transsexual. It has male and female. We see no reason to include so many different sexuallities, why don't we have a space for people with foot fetishes.

Date07:13:37, January 08, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageA foot fetish has nothing to do with sexuality or gender.

Further we would like to see non-denominational added to Christian in general.

Also, Latino as an ethnicity.

Date09:25:33, January 08, 2008 CET
FromNormand Pluralist Party
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageDSP: Which of these are non-negotiable? I've added non-denominational.

Date09:47:22, January 08, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageThe ony things we really want added are Asexual to sexuality, since it in the real world makes up about 1% ofthe population and Latino to ethnicity, since it is a seperate ethnicity itself.

Also, adding Sunni, Shi'a, Non-denominational and Other to Islam.

Date18:21:47, January 08, 2008 CET
FromNormand Pluralist Party
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageDone and done.

I would put this to a vote, but there's no point until after the elections.

Date18:23:40, January 08, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageLatino is an ethnicity itself, not a 'mixed race'.

Date20:06:13, January 08, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageSomething else to I've been thinking about.
What about the 15-30% of people who don't vote, how exactly do we account for them?

Date17:45:05, January 09, 2008 CET
FromNormand Pluralist Party
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageSurveys. You can find out who they would have voted for.

BTW, Latino is indeed a "mixed race": the Latino ethnicity, where it differs from the Caucasian ethnicity (Argentines, for example, generally do not) does so only because they have ancestry from both Europeans and Native Americans (and, on some occasions, and most especially in Brazil, Africans).

This is the problem with the Latino ethnicity - you can have Brazilians with black skin and Argentines or Mexicans with blue eyes and white skin which are all considered "Latino". Moreover, cultural differences between Brazil, Argentina, and Mexico are massive.

Date02:15:00, January 10, 2008 CET
FromSekowan Communist Party
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageWith the elections done, shall we begin to poll our populace on how many voted for us, and then begin to fill out the censuses?

Date19:22:05, January 10, 2008 CET
FromNormand Pluralist Party
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageGood idea. I'll put this to a vote.

Date19:59:54, January 10, 2008 CET
FromCommunist Party of Sekowo
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageAsexuals? Hell no. Thats not a sexuality. As most Asexual declare themselves as homosexual or heterosexual.

Date22:34:06, January 10, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageWe're voting yes simply to spite the CPS.


OOC:
I'll just change it once everyone else has gone and there are new parties in a few months, or a year.

Date01:18:32, January 11, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageAlso, if the CPS was not such a bigoted close minded party they would realize that Asexual's are no gay, straight, bi or anything else, they have no sexual desires or preferences.

Date09:39:38, January 11, 2008 CET
FromNormand Pluralist Party
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageOOC: So, I'll run surveys on everyone; you can verify your own percentage in your own survey, if you'd like.

Either message me or post here a break down of each of the following categories for your party (this represents those who voted for you):
-Ethnicity (should total 100%)
-Gender (should total 100%, and male and female should both be close to 50%)
-Households (totalling 100%)
-Native Language (should be close to 100%. May be slightly higher)
-Marital Status (totalling 100%)
-Religion (probably should total 100%)
-Sexuality (totalling 100%)


Because these may be automatic (age definitely is), I am going to recommend you not provide information for age and income at this point. We can always do that later if we find that it is not automated.

Date15:33:52, January 11, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the Sekowan Census Proposal (2512)
MessageThe only age info ir provides is what percent of the populace is over 65, the rest basically has to be figured out base don the age bars for each region, which don't have % numbers to tell you exact numbers.

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Voting

Vote Seats
yes
    

Total Seats: 475

no
 

Total Seats: 59

abstain
   

Total Seats: 216


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