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Bill: Nom d'État

Details

Submitted by[?]: Parti Radical et Radical-Socialiste

Status[?]: passed

Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.

Voting deadline: August 2518

Description[?]:

The name of the Nation implies that it is dominated by religious figures rather then by a King and Senate. We propose that it be changed to reflect this.

The name of Rildanor shall be changed...
...from Royaume Chrétien de Rildanor
...to Royaume de Rildanor


Proposals

Debate

These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:

Date00:33:54, January 11, 2008 CET
From Front Canrillaise
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageWe are increasingly annoyed by the growing power of the Church and we will, as we have always done, support Royaume Français de Rildanor.

Date02:07:41, January 11, 2008 CET
FromFront Nationaliste Royaliste
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageWe support the Royaume Chrétien de Rildanor, but we are not opposed to rational discussion on the topic. We could conceivably support "Royaume de Rildanor" given that that was indeed the name that was originally proposed in the FNR-authored Déclaration de l'Indépendance Unilatérale, a name which, ironically, the Parti d'Aristocratie rejected in favour of the present name. Nevertheless, we are opposed Royaume Français de Rildanor for a variety of reasons. The description "French" includes multiple countries and peoples, and we have constantly supported a Rildanor for the Rildanorians approach. We feel that having our national name mention a group that not only includes Rildanor, but a wide array of nations and peoples is not in line with this policy.

But, we reiterate, that we are in support of the Royaume Chrétien de Rildanor and have no plans to change that policy in the near future, particularly when the Left continues to seek the dissolution of the monarchy. Until such a time as the Left can abandon republicanism, we feel than engaging in any dialogue with them on the monarchy is simply redundant.

Date03:10:27, January 11, 2008 CET
FromPartie Démocratique Libéral
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageWe will support any of the proposed changes, and prefer Royaume Français de Rildanor.

Date04:07:16, January 11, 2008 CET
FromOption Citoyenne
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageRoyaume Français de Rildanor continues to be acceptable to us, if the Deuxième Etat can convince its coalition partners to agree.

Date04:18:50, January 11, 2008 CET
FromOption Citoyenne
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageFor the record: the compromise we previously offered was this:

"This act proposes a bargain:

The name of the state shall be the "Royaume Français de Rildanor."

The position of the Crown is guaranteed in exchange. Lutte Ouvrière will pledge to oppose any abolition of the monarchy, in exchange for the removal of "Chrétien" from the name of the state."

Date22:54:09, January 12, 2008 CET
From Front Canrillaise
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageWe have always favoured the simple "Royaume de Rildanor" over the Chrétien option and we supported the monarchy bill which, unfortunately, included the present name. The FNR's claims that we favoured Chrétien is, therefore, ridiculous.

Date19:24:31, January 13, 2008 CET
FromParti Communiste de Rildanor
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageWe will not accept any change. Any attempt to change the present title supported by any member of the conservative cabinet, should it pass, will result in the fracturing of our coalition. The PSC will NOT, under any circumstance, accept a title change, and will withdraw itself from any government that includes parties that successfully change the name. We have already arrived at an agreement with the left to keep the monarchy in exchange for absolute primogeniture. Further compromise on the subject is ridiculous.

Date03:15:36, January 14, 2008 CET
FromOption Citoyenne
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageYou've arrived at a compromise with who?

Date03:17:31, January 14, 2008 CET
FromPartie Démocratique Libéral
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageThe PDL does not believe absolute primogeniture is a sufficient cession by the right to warrant support of the monarchy. We would prefer that equal rights be given to heirs of both genders, but in the end what happens within the symbolic office is not our concern. The PDL will only condone the monarchy on the condition that it be secular and symbolic only.

With that said, there is a majority consensus for "Royame de Rildanor", effectively 2/3rds if the FNR will support it.

Date07:01:20, January 14, 2008 CET
From Front Canrillaise
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageAbsolute primogeniture DOES refer to giving equal rights to heirs of either gender.

Also, we do not recall the PSC ever saying they would support absolute primogeniture in exchange for the Left supporting the monarchy. But if this is the case then that's great. We think it is also the time to state our support for a secular and symbolic monarch for the sake of national unity.

Date07:21:22, January 14, 2008 CET
FromParti Radical et Radical-Socialiste
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageThe King is secular, as is the senate. Those supporting the dominance of the first estate over the second and third need to stop this foolishness.

Date01:18:32, January 15, 2008 CET
FromParti Communiste de Rildanor
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageWe reiterate that if the conservative bloc in the Senat is to maintain power, we must all oppose the secularization of the monarchy. If this passes we will leave the government, since we are a Christian party in a religious country, in which even the word "secular" is an affront to our constitution.

Date02:22:36, January 15, 2008 CET
From Front Canrillaise
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageThe Second Estate is also prepared to leave this government to form an alliance with the opposition. We wish to inform the PSC that they are not the only ones that can make threats regarding the fate of this government.

Date03:29:55, January 15, 2008 CET
FromFront Nationaliste Royaliste
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageWith regards to the insinuations that Rildanor is a “secular” state, we quote the Déclaration de l'Indépendance Unilatérale, which finally re-established our national independence:

“Article VII - The Royaume Chrétien de Rildanor is hereby declared to be a Christian nation, with the Orthodox Catholic Church being the state church of Rildanor. All members of the Royal House of Nareath shall be members of the Orthodox Catholic Church.”

To our honourable allies in the Parti d'Aristocratie, we would like to remind them of thise comment, made in the second attempt at unilateral secession from the Union de Selaya (which was proposed by the PA themselves):

“We certainly have enough support among the monarchists to push for an official recognition of Rildanor as a Christian nation. However, we would propose to change it to 'Catholique' simply because it's more specific and the Orthodox Catholic Church has a played a prominent role in the country's history.”

In any event, the FNR leadership would like to express its sincere distraught at the worsening relations between the parties of the national governing coalition. The Radical Right (FNR, PSC, PPN) have essentially shelves attempts to re-create the situation under the Act of Uniformity and have accepted a reduced role of the Church in civic affairs. However, the issue of renaming our full conventional name should not threaten the stability of the Rightist bloc, and therefore the country as a whole. If we do not remain united and strong, the Leftists could regain power and undo all of the progress we have made, possibly even destroying our carefully-crafted monarchial institutions.

We urge the PA and PSC to reconcile their differences and stop threatening the stability of the government and the nation as a whole.

Date04:02:35, January 15, 2008 CET
FromParti Radical et Radical-Socialiste
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageThis is much larger then a name. This society is at a cross roads, one path leading to a state that is controlled by a small fanatical faction of the church, the other a secular democracy that at least respects all people’s right to exist. To be honest the radicals are becoming less and less opposed to the monarchy, because we realize that ultimately it is not a ceremonial King or aristocracy that is a threat to the third estate, it is religious extremists who do not even represent many members of the church, especially this one!

Really it is disgusting, the fanatical right has turned God into a warped and twisted form! It has made Christ, the price of peace, into the lord of oppression and bigotry! God is too great and Christ too holy for this! They are above this state and above your politics!

I apologize, I do not wish to offend; it just hurts me. I am old and I want to be rid of this madness. When I was young I would go to church and be happy, but now there is so much hate, I can barely stay for the Eucharist.

Honor God; free him from the shackles of our politics.

~ Jean Rayon d'Alouise
Senateur de la Ville de Tirali
President du Parti Radical et Radical-Socialiste –
Rassemblement pour l’Avancement de Démocratie

Date05:15:02, January 15, 2008 CET
From Front Canrillaise
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageWe support the Orthodox Catholic Church as the state's official religion but not to the point that the country centres around it. We also firmly believe that His Majesty should remain neutral, something we have always advocated.

Date06:11:12, January 16, 2008 CET
FromParti Communiste de Rildanor
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageWe can not remain in a coalition with the Parti d'Aristocratie if they continue to maintain this unChristian talk of secularism. We face a war against secular liberalism and secular socialism, and the party of the aristocracy seems to have come down on the side of the extreme left, choosing a false doctrine of secularism and neutrality over our Christian heritage. How will that prepare them for the great moral debates? If they cede ground now on the question of secularization, how far are they willing to go to calm the demands of the socialist republicans in the Option Citoyenne?

And we object, in the strongest terms, to this notion that the nation of Rildanor should not center itself around its Christian heritage. We are a Christian nation before we are a French nation, and we are certainly a Christian nation and not a secular atheist nation. We beg the Parti d'Aristocratie to regain its sense of Christian purpose, though we fear they are more interested in making coalitions with the extreme left than rescuing our present government.

Date07:38:50, January 16, 2008 CET
FromParti Radical et Radical-Socialiste
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageThere is no extreme left in this kingdom, only a fanatical right. The left wants the members of our society to have the freedom of religion, as do many sensible senateurs on the right. What the extreme right wants is nothing short of a theocracy, pandering to a reactionary faction of the Church.

The left does not dote over the ceremonial monarchy, nor to there being an official religion… some do not like either and most reject the latter, but in terms of national policy there are more pressing issues that directly affect our constituents. The economy needs tended to, as do the protections of our citizens basic freedoms. And among these freedoms is the freedom to worship.

Freedom of religion is something that the left, and an increasing number on the right, supports. Christianity itself has flourished because of this liberty.

The left does not deny that this nation is largely inhabited by Christians and that Christianity, in particular Orthodox Catholicism, has played a major role in the shaping of our modern state. But this influence upon our history is no justification to strip away the fundamental liberty of free worship, or force a theocracy upon us.

~ Joséphine Ana d'Orsue
Sénatrice de la Ville de Labonne
Membre du Parti Radical et Radical-Socialiste –
Rassemblement pour l’Avancement de Démocratie

Date16:27:25, January 16, 2008 CET
From Front Canrillaise
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageThe Second Estate does not support secularism except with respect to the monarch who is suppose to be representative of the whole nation. The King, therefore, must stay neutral in all things, no matter how strongly he feels about a subject. While we are not keen on complete secularism, we are also not interested in an aggressive theocracy. Heritage can be retained, but not abused. There is a place for the Church in Rildanorian society and that place should always be held in check.

Date23:57:43, January 16, 2008 CET
FromPartie Démocratique Libéral
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageMme. d'Orsue has phrased the situation wonderfully. All citizens of Rildanor deserve to look upon their national symbols and know that they live in a nation with a government which respects them regardless of their heritage or beliefs. A shrinking minority wishes to deny them that and cater only to their own denomination. Was national unity not the stated purpose of reinstating the Monarchy? The numbers of Senateurs of all stripes who wish to reject the radical theocratic image has only increased since this chamber last adjourned. As such, I motion to move the previous question and bring the change of name to "Royaume de Rildanor" to a vote with all haste.

-Adrien Felice
Chef de plancher pour le Parti Démocratique Libéral
Sénateur de la Leria (Meriath)

Date00:40:41, January 17, 2008 CET
From Front Canrillaise
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageWe will support the return to "Royaume de Rildanor" as it is more neutral and less conflicting among the parties.

Date03:40:47, January 17, 2008 CET
FromParti Communiste de Rildanor
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageThe PSC speaks for all members of the right when it says: "non, non, absolument pas!"

Date18:27:46, January 17, 2008 CET
FromParti Radical et Radical-Socialiste
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageOOC: I'm going to set this to a vote now.

Date21:39:10, January 17, 2008 CET
From Parti Union Nationale
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageWe oppose.

Date21:49:20, January 17, 2008 CET
FromFront Nationaliste Royaliste
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessagePraise God, this atheist proposal has been defeated by the Senate of Rildanor. God still blesses Rildanor!

Date22:52:32, January 17, 2008 CET
FromParti Radical et Radical-Socialiste
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageI don't thing God cares.

~ Joséphine Ana d'Orsue
Sénatrice de la Ville de Labonne
Membre du Parti Radical et Radical-Socialiste –
Rassemblement pour l’Avancement de Démocratie

Date22:53:48, January 17, 2008 CET
FromParti Radical et Radical-Socialiste
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageI don't think God cares.

OOC: is this a constitutional question or can the name simply be altered by a majority?

~ Joséphine Ana d'Orsue
Sénatrice de la Ville de Labonne
Membre du Parti Radical et Radical-Socialiste –
Rassemblement pour l’Avancement de Démocratie

Date02:10:39, January 18, 2008 CET
FromParti Communiste de Rildanor
ToDebating the Nom d'État
MessageIt's a constitutional question fortunately.

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Voting

Vote Seats
yes
    

Total Seats: 164

no
    

Total Seats: 139

abstain

    Total Seats: 0


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