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Bill: PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518
Details
Submitted by[?]: Anarchistes pour une Société Libre
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: September 2520
Description[?]:
| Terms for the end of the conflict between Separatist and Federal forces: *CDF shall be disbanded *PLMO will not engage in any further destructive acts against the Republic, unless in response to violence *The following individuals will not be held responsible for any crime committed during the Civil War: Pythias Demopolous, Victoria Sanchez, Mashenka Fedorov, Ludmila Petrasch, Sarika Ferenczy, Cecylia Dzielwialtowski, Ekaterina Strashilova, Viljem Tupurkovsky, Anislav Plevnik, Evdokiya Cvetomira, Pavel Kecmanovic, Vesna Rukavina, Veronika Kyznetsov, Miroslsv Obrenovic. *All peoples who partook in war crimes will be tried in a court of law and sentenced appropriately. *War crimes shall be defined as: -The intentional killing of a soldier who is "out of combat" -Attacking those flying a flag of truce -Flying a flag of truce as a ploy to mount an attack -Mistreatment of prisoners of war -Mistreatment of civilians or non-combatants -Wanton destruction of property -Forcing a prisoner of war to fight for a hostile power -Depriving a PoW of a fair trial -Unlawful deportation, transfer, or confinement of a PoW -Taking hostages -Directing attacks against civilians or non-combatants -Directing attacks against medical personnel or unarmed enemy messengers and diplomats -Killing a surrendered combatant -Using biological or chemical weapons -Using civilians as shields -Rape, sexual slavery, forced prostitution or forced pregnancy *The PLMO, CDF, and all Separatist partisans shall cease all military operations and violent action against the Federal military *The Federal military shall cease all military operations and violent action against the PLMO, CDF, and all Separatist partisans *The Federal government employees and PLMO volunteers shall work jointly in the reconstruction of the nations damaged housing and infrastructure *The PLMO shall be allowed to open private schools in Turadrad provinces for the purpose of teaching children from a Marxist perspective, where low-income families will have their tuition paid partially or in full by the PLMO *The PLMO shall be allowed to continue to run and subsidize their hospitals, drug-abuse and addiction treatment centers, counseling services centers, community centers, and day-care centers for the children of working families *The PLMO shall be allowed to continue to operate collective farms and communes in the rural areas *The PLMO shall be allowed to continue to run and subsidize apartment buildings for low-income working families *The PLMO shall be recognized as a legitimate political party, and entitled to all rights guaranteed to political parties *The PLMO shall not engage in the ordering or carrying out of criminal activities of any kind *The creation of a private security agency known as the "Community Security Firm" shall be recognized as a perfectly legal operation *The CSF will utilize only legal, licensed weaponry, in accordance with local and federal law *The CSF shall not be run by the PLMO Central Committee, i.e. the Central Committee cannot give the CSF its marching orders *All CSF members must swear an oath never to break a Federal law, local law, or the High Treason Act *The CSF shall be employed to patrol areas owned or operated by the PLMO, such as the aforementioned centers, housing, and collective farms, by contract *The High Treason Act must be confirmed by the National Assembly every eight years, and the PLMO must vote for it for the first sixteen years *March 17th shall be proclaimed United Jelbania Day, a day to remember the Civil War, and the newfound unity of the Jelbanian people |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 13:46:58, January 18, 2008 CET | From | Revolutionary Constit'nal United Front | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | This an insult to those who have died in your treasonous war of aggression. No private armies. No amnesty. Punishment to all who have broken the law, resisted arrest, fired on members of the police, killed and/or injured members of the police, and advocated a nationwide rebellion against the federal government. |
| Date | 15:42:17, January 18, 2008 CET | From | Démocrates de la Gauche | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | When the entire nation is on the road to peace all you can do is bicker about starting more war? |
| Date | 17:08:03, January 18, 2008 CET | From | Bloc Militaire pour Restauration | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | we strongly oppose |
| Date | 18:24:02, January 18, 2008 CET | From | Socialist Jelbanian Party-D.L.J.-D.L.F | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | Which points do you oppose? Perhaps we could talk about them....I think that one is the total amnesty for the central commitee, and the other is the CDF...we are right? |
| Date | 19:01:46, January 18, 2008 CET | From | Lib-Gov Party-part of W.A-S.U | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | This is a starting point, do not break negoziatons. There are two points in my mind can't be accepted : -The Federal government shall provide rebuilding aid to the local governments and all private citizens for the damages caused by Federal forces to all public and private property -*The CDF shall not be allowed to possess an unreasonable amount of firearms; i.e. no more than 25% more than is necessary to arm the entire CDF at any given time( does it means CDF is an armed Party?) |
| Date | 23:28:10, January 19, 2008 CET | From | Centre Démocratique | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | First, we encourage CUF and FDP to participate in this discussion, rather than just flatly saying that you will not support this. An accord/agreement is the only way to end this conflict. That process begins here and now and it appears that all sides want peace. All parties must participate if a succesful agreement is to be made. Your leadership is needed in this matter and we hope you play an active and construcive role in the process. - We agree with most of what it is said in this accord, except for the following: *The CDF shall not be allowed to carry military grade weapons such as high-caliber machine guns, hand grenades, or rocket devices of any kind; rifles are permitted, and handguns must be visible at all times *The CDF shall not be allowed to possess an unreasonable amount of firearms; i.e. no more than 25% more than is necessary to arm the entire CDF at any given time *The CDF shall be allowed to patrol areas owned or operated by the PLMO, such as the aforementioned centers, housing, and collective farms *The High Treason Act shall be amended to allow the aforementioned limited CDF to exist without being in breach of said Act -UCC still believes that private militias should remain illegal. We do not right-wing parties having them. We do not want left-wing parties having them. We do not want religious groups having them. We do not want corporations having them. We do not want any in our land. Can you imagine what it would be like if all those groups DID have private militias? They are dangerous entities that threaten the security of our federal militiary, federal police, and local police forces (and of course innocent civilians). In addition, only those with professions that require handguns should be allowed to have them. It would be a mistake to allow CDF to continue to operate in any form, just as it was a mistake for CDF to begin their uprising, a huge mistake. We encourage all political parties in Jelbania to join us in preventing another mistake from happening that could threaten the peace and stability of the nation. CDF should be completely disbanded and all private militias should remain illegal. *The High Treason Act must be confirmed by the National Assembly every six years -Our first thought at reading this was to be completely opposed to it. No other legislation has such a requirement, so this would be completely unprecedented. However, we may support this if PLMO agrees to vote in support of keeping HTA the first two (2) times it comes up for re-authorization (this would, of course, be the original High Treason Act which includes the ban on private militias). This would mean PLMO would commit to vote in support of HTA for eighteen (18) years after this Accord is signed. Some other parties have objected to the language in the bill title (too dramatic?) so we would also agree to changing some of that language. *The PLMO shall be recognized as a legitimate political party, and entitled to all rights guaranteed to political parties -We feel we are being very generous to the political leadership of PLMO by giving them amnesty from all criminal charges. They could easily be arrested, tried, and sentenced to prison for the crimes they have committed. Since there is no criminal repercussions for their actions, there should be political repercussions instead. PLMO should remain able to contest legislative elections, win seats, and have complete voting rights in the Assemblee. However, there should be a ten (10) year ban preventing PLMO from running a candidate in the presidential election and being a party of any cabinet coalition. Those are our thoughts. We would like to hear what all parties think and we hope an agreement can be formed soon. |
| Date | 08:17:15, January 20, 2008 CET | From | Anarchistes pour une Société Libre | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | We find it laughable in the extreme that this article is opposed by the UCC: *The CDF shall be allowed to patrol areas owned or operated by the PLMO, such as the aforementioned centers, housing, and collective farms Protecting your own property from those who wish to destroy it, and protecting your loved ones while on that privately owned land, is an unalienable right that every Jelbanian has, regardless of political affiliation. If someone were to enter your home with a gun, I should hope that you would kill him with a firearm of your own. We added this article as a method to inform the National Assembly of what has always been and will always be a policy of the PLMO; we will protect our loved ones and our property with all available force if we are threatened. This article is absolutely not up for negotiation. That being said, there are a number of other articles that are up for a quantitative change, but certainly not a qualitative change. We will continue to have militant wing of the Party, as every Party has. "Every Party?" you ask? Yes, every Party has members who are armed. I believe the question here is on organization and purpose. There is little or no organization of the armed individuals in other Parties, while the multi-Party CDF is highly organized and is easily mobilized in a short amount of time. We have changed the purpose of the CDF to be a policing force for all PLMO private property, rather than a political weapon, as it was turned into during the Civil War (it's original purpose when it was to protect the property of the PBN, it was only when our Central Committee was arrested that it turned into a political weapon). You can't stop us from protecting our people and property. However, the types of weapons used by them can be regulated, as we proposed. The CDF is technically in the employ of the PLMO; they are payed by the Party Treasury for their services to the Leftist community. Therefore, any weapons they carry while on-duty are legal, as they are professionally required. We are willing to compromise, and say that they may only carry rifles and handguns, and no explosives or high-caliber machine-guns. They must also be clearly visible at all times. The CDF has a specific uniform, so they are easily recognizable as miltiamen, black dress uniform, with a Party armband. They are required to return any Party-owned weapons to a PLMO arms depot where CDF members may check-out weaponry for patrol detail after their shift ends. In this fashion, we prevent any potential criminal activity being perpetrated with PLMO arms. It is reasonable to assume that the HTA must be changed to accommodate any Peace Accords which are passed with a majority, so we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Also, the intervals in which it must be confirmed is negotiable, we would support no more than twelve year intervals (OOC: such a repressive act must have regular opportunites to be defeated, such as the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act must be confirmed at regular intervals). We will run for President when we see fit to run, we will not accept a proposal that limits that right. If a Cabinet is accepted with the PLMO within it, then that is democracy, you have to deal with it. Same with the run for the Presidancy, if the people approve of our policies, they will vote for us, if they do not, they will not vote for us, it is very simple. In the future, after critisizing our proposed articles, please reccommend an article to replace it with, so the PLMO actually has something to consider revising the Peace Accords with. Otherwise, you're muttering to yourself in the dark. Thank you. |
| Date | 11:40:36, January 20, 2008 CET | From | Socialist Jelbanian Party-D.L.J.-D.L.F | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | Our proposals for the negotiation: ****The following individuals will not be held responsible for any crime committed during the Civil War: Pythias Demopolous, Victoria Sanchez, Mashenka Fedorov, Ludmila Petrasch, Sarika Ferenczy, Cecylia Dzielwialtowski, Ekaterina Strashilova, Viljem Tupurkovsky, Anislav Plevnik, Evdokiya Cvetomira, Pavel Kecmanovic, Vesna Rukavina, Veronika Kyznetsov, Miroslsv Obrenovic.**** As UCC have said these individuals are anyway politically responsible, we support the amnesty, but we ask a complete substitution of the central commitee with new members , this is the minimum , and the PLMO is full of able political leaders that could take the place of the current central commitee. In addition all these members were involved in the PBN politics, so their substitution could be an evidence of the change of politics made by the PLMO. *The Federal government shall provide rebuilding aid to the local governments and all private citizens for the damages caused by Federal forces to all public and private property This is a point that the Assemblée could debate in future, we see no need in this moment, the balance of the accord is still difficult. *The CDF shall be allowed to patrol areas owned or operated by the PLMO, such as the aforementioned centers, housing, and collective farms We propose a change: The CDF shall be allowed to patrol ONLY areas owned or operated by the PLMO. if the CDF is really a defence force, it has jurisdiction only in the PLMO private properties . The CDF shall use weapons only in his patrol missions in the PLMO properties, and cooperate with the federal police in any case , the federal police should have the right to investigate freely in PLMO properties in any case. Out the PLMO properties, the CDF have no jurisdiction and no right to weapons , CDF should have the same rights and limits of a normal private security service. We think that the CDF should be a normal security service, and we will support this form with all its right and its limits. We don't support and will never agree with the existence of a private militia in Jelbania. We could support a change in the HTA to support this new form.. Our proposals are based on a compromise between the different proposals, we hope that they will be useful for the negotiation. |
| Date | 18:05:35, January 20, 2008 CET | From | Centre Démocratique | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | We are not saying that PLMO should not be able to hire a security company for their properties. We are saying it would be a huge blunder to allow the CDF to "morph" into a security force for your private properties that will be "easily recognizable as miltiamen, black dress uniform, with a Party armband." If PLMO wants some security for their private property, they should do what other private property owners do: hire a private security firm. We firmly believe that CDF needs to be completely disbanded and not able to continue its operation in any form. |
| Date | 19:10:47, January 20, 2008 CET | From | Revolutionary Constit'nal United Front | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | We will not be coerced to provide favors to criminals. The bare minimum conditions that we would support would involve a complete surrender and dissolution of the private militia, the surrender of the leaders who have started a rebellion to be put to trial, and a sum of reparations to be paid for the damage cause by the rebellion and to the victims of their violence--this would include families of soldiers, policemen, and civilian casualties. Only then could we support a re-recognition of the PLMO as a political party rather than a terrorist organization. |
| Date | 19:17:50, January 20, 2008 CET | From | Revolutionary Constit'nal United Front | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | Please note in the failure to meet our demands in the near future, PLMO, as the President of the Republique I will authorize the continuation of our military campaigns in Turadrad to ensure that all members of your terrorist organization are brought to justice. Rest assured that despite your posturing, your forces will be completely annihilated within a few years. The only reason we have halted military operations is to allow a chance to resolve this conflict peacefully. But you seem to mistake who has the leverage in these negotiations. You're forces have been driven from all provinces besides Turadrad in the span of a few months. You are no position to demand anything. |
| Date | 19:52:16, January 20, 2008 CET | From | Démocrates de la Gauche | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | Why are you trying to extend the war? |
| Date | 20:02:35, January 20, 2008 CET | From | Socialist Jelbanian Party-D.L.J.-D.L.F | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | We strongly oppose this act of force of the president, and we will damn every military action in Turadrad. Only the parliament have the jurisdiction on this issue. We are not a presidential republic |
| Date | 21:22:33, January 20, 2008 CET | From | Démocrates de la Gauche | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | We proposed a seperate act to deny the rights to escalate the civil conflict. |
| Date | 21:42:47, January 20, 2008 CET | From | Anarchistes pour une Société Libre | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | I did not want to bring this up, as I wish this issue to remain an internal conflict, but you have forced my hand, it seems. I sent out word of the Civil War to Leftist-majority nations, Leftist organizations, and revolutionary Parties throughout the world several years ago, when this conflict started. They have pledged a total of several million troops to the Leftist cause. If you were to break the ceasefire, I have been assured foreign military assistance. Do not think you can crush the spirit of the Revolution. We wish to come to a peaceful agreement, but we cannot do this if you continue to make threats you cannot possibly have the military muscle to act on. Mark my words though; if you break the ceasefire, we will accept all offers of foreign military support. Do not end these negotiations because you foolishly believe you can win a military conflict with the worlds revolutionary forces behind us. Now - If anyone has a problem with the terms I propose in this bill, please reply with a suitable replacement article, and we can debate that. Otherwise, there is no reason to continue this discussion |
| Date | 22:46:15, January 20, 2008 CET | From | Socialist Jelbanian Party-D.L.J.-D.L.F | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | We have already made our proposals for the negotiation, so we wait for a further discussion on them. We must avoid a conflict that could involve other countries, this is a internal question, For this reason we ask the continuation of the ceasefire. Only the assemble have power and jurisdiction on this matter |
| Date | 22:53:18, January 20, 2008 CET | From | Centre Démocratique | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | Well it seems that both CUF and PLMO are really not committed to true peace. Both parties want to threaten MORE violence and MORE destruction instead of debating the terms of this accord. PLMO: the federalist forces have recieved messages of proposed military support as well (from anti-communist parties). We do not support any outside forces entering this conflict. Do not promote your moronic violent acts as somehow revolutionary. Jelbania is a place of peace for all ideologies and beliefs, so the idea that CDF is somehow a heroic leftist revolutionary group is laughable and absurd. You made a mistake, you will pay for your mistakes, so don't get all cocky because you slaughtered our troops. You will go down in history as a bunch of terrorist thugs who had to be stopped by the more reasonable parties of the country. So stick to negotiation and discussion and drop the lame threats. |
| Date | 23:47:46, January 20, 2008 CET | From | Revolutionary Constit'nal United Front | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | We are committed to peace, which is why we halted military action for these negotiations. Yet the PLMO has brought up these ridiculous demands and continues to swagger as if we has a stranglehold grip on the throat of the republic. We have stated our demands and all parties must realize that they are not unreasonable. If they fail to meet the demands, they shall be imposed forcibly. We cannot afford to have armed "revolutionaries" demanding for the legal recognition of their treasonous private army. |
| Date | 01:52:33, January 21, 2008 CET | From | Anarchistes pour une Société Libre | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | Actually, the ceasefire was enacted by the PLMO with no consultation with the Federal forces. You were merely informed of the situation, you had no part in the decision-making process. WE were the ones who wish to have peaceful negotiations. I say again: POST A POSSIBLE REPLACEMENT FOR A SPECIFIC ARTICLE, AND WE CAN DEBATE THAT. Example: "I propose we replace this article: '*March 17th shall be proclaimed United Jelbania Day, a day to remember the Civil War, and the newfound unity of the Jelbanian people' With this article: 'March 24th shall be proclaimed United Jelbania Day, a day to remember the Civil War, and the newfound unity of the Jelbanian people' I want this article to be replaced with my proposed article for the following reasons...." |
| Date | 04:02:25, January 21, 2008 CET | From | Revolutionary Constit'nal United Front | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | The ceasefire was enacted when the support for your cause was dwindling and you were losing militarily. Oh you surely are peacekeepers of the highest order with your private armies and violent uprisings. How many times must we repeat the conditions: 1) Complete surrender and dissolution of your private army 2) The leaders of the party and rebellion must be put to trial for high treason 3) Repartitions to the families of the victims of their violence (soldiers, policemen, and civilian casualties) Is that clear enough for you? We have been very patient with your swaggering and boasting, but this is getting ridiculous. If you decide to refuse these conditions and continue to wage violence against the state, you will lose. No matter how many foreigners you bring to desecrate this land. You will lose. You have no leverage here. And all of those who have orchestrated this violence will be punished. We are being very lenient here in that we ask only for the dissolution of your private army (which to this day is treasonous) and the surrender of your leaders. All other members of your party will not be prosecuted or persecuted. You will no longer be a terrorist organization and become a publically recognized political party once again. But do not think you can intimidate this democracy to grant you any special favors, because you have some filthy foreigners promising you aid. |
| Date | 04:24:53, January 21, 2008 CET | From | Centre Démocratique | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | What do the Socialists, Lib-Gov, FDP, and DG (and anyone) think about our suggestions for the Accord? We have tried to take a moderate path that makes concessions to both sides. We are willing to let Turadrad call itseld whatever it wants - that belief is the same with all the provinces. It has always been a left-leaning province and the majority of the people can vote to have whatever socialist, social democratic, or progressive policies they desire. That is perfectly reasonable. Also, we support allowing PLMO to continue to operate its collective farms, communes, hospitals, treatment centers, community centers, day-care centers, apartment buildings, etc. We hope they continue to be generous in aid to these important institutions with their party money. But we just cannot support the existence of any private militias in our nation. The actions of CDF have shown us what kind of danger they are. And we've spent years focusing on this violent, internal conflict and put other major issues and concerns aside so that this would be our nation's top priority. Our nation has suffered beause of the actions of a private militia. We cannot again allow a private militia to be formed, who will then attack our federal forces. We have to continue to outlaw them to secure the safety of our people and institutions. Finally, we continue to believe that the leaders of CDF be punished politically for their actions if not punished with criminal charges. We support the Socialists' suggestion to replace the entire party leadership, but we also support our suggestions for a ten year ban on presidential elections and cabinet coalitions. We have reprinted below our problems and suggestions to the Accord. - We would like the following articles removed from the Accord: *CDF will reduce armed membership count to within reasonable and safe limits - 250, 000 militiamen *The CDF shall not be allowed to carry military grade weapons such as high-caliber machine guns, hand grenades, or rocket devices of any kind; rifles are permitted, and handguns must be visible at all times *The CDF shall not be allowed to possess an unreasonable amount of firearms; i.e. no more than 25% more than is necessary to arm the entire CDF at any given time *The CDF shall be allowed to patrol areas owned or operated by the PLMO, such as the aforementioned centers, housing, and collective farms *The High Treason Act shall be amended to allow the aforementioned limited CDF to exist without being in breach of said Act -UCC still believes that private militias should remain illegal. We do not right-wing parties having them. We do not want left-wing parties having them. We do not want religious groups having them. We do not want corporations having them. We do not want any in our land. Can you imagine what it would be like if all those groups DID have private militias? They are dangerous entities that threaten the security of our federal militiary, federal police, and local police forces (and of course innocent civilians). In addition, only those with professions that require handguns should be allowed to have them. It would be a mistake to allow CDF to continue to operate in any form, just as it was a mistake for CDF to begin their uprising, a huge mistake. We encourage all political parties in Jelbania to join us in preventing another mistake from happening that could threaten the peace and stability of the nation. CDF should be completely disbanded and all private militias should remain illegal. -We are not saying that PLMO should not be able to hire a security company for their properties. We are saying it would be a huge blunder to allow the CDF to "morph" into a security force for your private properties that will be "easily recognizable as miltiamen, black dress uniform, with a Party armband." If PLMO wants some security for their private property, they should do what other private property owners do: hire a private security firm. We firmly believe that CDF needs to be completely disbanded and not able to continue its operation in any form. -DOES ANY PARTY IN THIS NATION BESIDES PLMO SUPPORT PRIVATE MILITIAS?? Please let us know. We'd like to know where all parties stand. - UCC would support the following article if PLMO agrees to our demands listed below: *The High Treason Act must be confirmed by the National Assembly every six years -Our first thought at reading this was to be completely opposed to it. No other legislation has such a requirement, so this would be completely unprecedented. However, we may support this if PLMO agrees to vote in support of keeping HTA the first two (2) times it comes up for re-authorization (this would, of course, be the original High Treason Act which includes the ban on private militias). This would mean PLMO would commit to vote in support of HTA for eighteen (18) years after this Accord is signed. Some other parties have objected to the language in the bill title (too dramatic?) so we would also agree to changing some of that language. - We believe the following article should be amended with the terms listed below *The PLMO shall be recognized as a legitimate political party, and entitled to all rights guaranteed to political parties -We feel we are being very generous to the political leadership of PLMO by giving them amnesty from all criminal charges. They could easily be arrested, tried, and sentenced to prison for the crimes they have committed. Since there is no criminal repercussions for their actions, there should be political repercussions instead. PLMO should remain able to contest legislative elections, win seats, and have complete voting rights in the Assemblee. However, there should be a ten (10) year ban preventing PLMO from running a candidate in the presidential election and being a party of any cabinet coalition. |
| Date | 07:23:11, January 21, 2008 CET | From | Anarchistes pour une Société Libre | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | Statement from Victoria Sanchez, Chairman de la PLMO The Central Committee has given me the power to make considerable concessions, as the UCC has been very reasonable, calm, and polite throughout these proceedings. Please read the new, revised Peace Accords proposal for details. |
| Date | 09:56:41, January 21, 2008 CET | From | Socialist Jelbanian Party-D.L.J.-D.L.F | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | We strongly support the revised Peace Accord, and we hope that the other parties will do the same. However , we still support the creation of a socialist republic in Turadrad. |
| Date | 16:21:45, January 21, 2008 CET | From | Centre Démocratique | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | We support this new Accord and thank PLMO for making concessions to make this happen. Hopefully we can get majority support for this and it will pass. |
| Date | 18:59:55, January 21, 2008 CET | From | Revolutionary Constit'nal United Front | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | Now this is a step forward. However, we would like to stress the following modifications. Firstly this article is not needed at all: The PLMO shall not be included in a governmental cabinet or coalition for sixteen years, but after that period, they are guaranteed the Education and Culture Ministry until the following election Secondly we do not support giving amnesty to leaders of the rebellion. HOWEVER we would support a compromise where only those who have voted/advocated/encouraged violence be surrendered and put to trial. We would still prefer if you had as a sign of good faith provided reparations to victims and families of victims of the violence. |
| Date | 22:40:24, January 21, 2008 CET | From | Anarchistes pour une Société Libre | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | Well, as you know, the leadership of the Party did not order military operations to begin. When our leaders were arrested, the CDF acted to free them, and then the leadership was forced to act. No one person or small group of people is responsible for this, except perhaps those who ordered the arrest of the leadership of the PLMO. I have removed the article regarding a cabinet. I'm putting this to a vote now. |
| Date | 22:50:55, January 21, 2008 CET | From | Centre Démocratique | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | Why did you remove the article about the cabinet?? This was the source of punishment for the actions of your party. Your party openly violated the law against the keeping of private militias. As we've said before, since there were no criminal repercussion, there needs to be political repercussions. We are not happy about this. We will be voting against this version, and proposing the version you see here PLUS the article about a 10 year ban from being part of the cabinet. |
| Date | 22:57:07, January 21, 2008 CET | From | Socialist Jelbanian Party-D.L.J.-D.L.F | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | PLMO , we don't understand your behaviour. We have reached a compromise, why did you decide to change the peace terms? |
| Date | 22:58:17, January 21, 2008 CET | From | Centre Démocratique | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | Other parties - please vote yes on the real peace accord here: http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=170697&vote=yes |
| Date | 00:05:33, January 22, 2008 CET | From | Anarchistes pour une Société Libre | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | We removed it because the CUF requested it, my apologies. I was willing to not participate in the cabinet for 16 years, and I only removed that bit because the CUF said it was unnecessary. Also, You have no authority to negotiate peace on our behalf, we control the CDF, not you. Nice try though. I will be perfectly happy to add the article in question back, if the CUF agrees. |
| Date | 01:38:37, January 22, 2008 CET | From | Centre Démocratique | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | I think CUF was probably referring to the fact that you wanted to guarantee your party the Education and Culture Ministry after your cabinet ban. But we cannot say for sure. We will only vote for the Accord if there is some form of punishment for your party. |
| Date | 01:44:23, January 22, 2008 CET | From | Revolutionary Constit'nal United Front | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | We believe punishing a party politically is inherently wrong. A political party is protected by the Jelbanian constitution from any such creative quasi-judicial/quasi-legislative punishments. On the other hand, those *individuals* who have perpetuated organized violence against the state must be punished. But considering the chaotic nature of the revolt, we see PLMO's point. Thus we request those persons who orchestrated the jailbreak of PLMO leaders and the high level generals (or those high lever officials who have organized attacks against federal forces) be put to trial. The crimes they are charged with will depend on the extent of their participation and may or may not include high treason--all shall be left at the discretion of the judges of the lower courts. Lower level participants (soldiers, partisans etc.) shall receive amnesty, as we believe they were acting under duress from superiors. Those higher level officials who did not advocate, encourage and orchestrate violence against federal forces shall also have amnesty and not be brought to trial. As someone once said, In this country we operate by "rule of law, not men." We shall not oppress a political party that has forsaken its ties with terror and terrorist activity as "punishment". It is not up to us. The law says that those who engage in violence against the enforcers of law shall be punished as individuals, not organizations, especially not as political parties. That is discrimination at its highest. That would mean that the pacifist who happened to vote for the PLMO is disallowed voice in the form of a president or cabinet member? This is an injustice in itself. |
| Date | 02:38:27, January 22, 2008 CET | From | Anarchistes pour une Société Libre | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | Very well - We will agree to these fair terms set out by the CUF. Check the revised Accords for details. |
| Date | 02:40:26, January 22, 2008 CET | From | Anarchistes pour une Société Libre | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | Well, it seems I cannot edit the proposal once voting has begun... If you wish, you can create a separate proposal guaranteeing that those who convinced the mob to break into the jail and start the Civil War to be tried by the lower courts, and we will support that bill. |
| Date | 06:08:55, January 22, 2008 CET | From | Centre Démocratique | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | CUF, we disagree. Those that vote for PLMO will still be represented by them in the Assemblee. We understand that this proposal for a ban on participation in the cabinet is completely unprecedented - this whole situation is. But we believe there must be some punishment for the party as a whole. We compromised with PLMO and have withdrawn our proposal to also ban them from presidential elections. If they are banned from the cabinet for 10 years, they still will have the same voting priveleges as all other parties and they will be able to contest all elections. They just will not have the privelege of serving in the cabinet. If we are giving the leadership of PLMO amnesty from criminal charges - we need to punish them in some way. And a temporary ban from cabinet activity is not exactly a harsh "sentence." We encourage CUF, PLMO, and other parties to support the other Separatist/Federal Peace Accord. |
| Date | 06:12:09, January 22, 2008 CET | From | Anarchistes pour une Société Libre | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | Hmm. This is quite reasonable. I will include both in a new bill. |
| Date | 06:24:18, January 22, 2008 CET | From | Centre Démocratique | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | Thank you for understanding our views on this matter and writing up the addendum to the Accords. We will now vote for this version and the addendum. We will abstain (and encourage all parties to abstain) from the version we put forth. |
| Date | 19:38:14, January 22, 2008 CET | From | Revolutionary Constit'nal United Front | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | It is not a harsh sentence at all. The point is that it sets a dangerous precedent of political punishment. And the ability to serve on a cabinet is not a privilege but a right given to all political parties. Sure all parties could agree to bar the PLMO from a cabinet for 10 years, but making this a *law* is reprehensible. However, since we want this peace accord implemented immediately, we will vote for both this and the addendum. However, we will also put forth a proposal that finds the 10 year legal ban from a cabinet provision unconstitutional and null. And it shall replace that provision with a mutual informal agreement among all parties to bar the PLMO from a cabinet for 10 years. |
| Date | 22:08:02, January 22, 2008 CET | From | Centre Démocratique | To | Debating the PLMO Proposal 41 - Separatist/Federal Peace Accords of 2518 |
| Message | This seems to be a debate over semantics. If CUF wishes to consider the cabinet ban a "mutual informal agreement" rather than a "law" in the Accords, that is fine. We will vote for that proposal as well. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 325 | ||||||
| no | Total Seats: 0 | ||||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 176 |
| Random fact: You can view helpful ideological statistics about the regions in your nation on the region pages. You can also view detailed political opinions and the importance of them there as well. |
| Random quote: "Hunger makes a thief of any man." - Pearl S. Buck |