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Bill: Gun Laws
Details
Submitted by[?]: Liberal Party of Telamon
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: May 2041
Description[?]:
| We ask that anyone may own a gun, but only with a license abtained through strict testing. This will lower deaths caused by guns as complete nutters will be found befor carrying a gun and all gun owners would have basic knowladge of firearm saftey as they would need this to pass the test. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Ownership of guns by private individuals.
Old value:: Adult individuals are allowed to own and purchase guns freely.
Current: Individuals are not permitted to own firearms under any circumstances.
Proposed: Adult individuals may own guns under strict license conditions.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | not recorded |
From | United Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | My Liberal leanings suggest to me that the government perhaps should not legislate on this, but I am willing to support you as you do make a good case. In return I would like you to vote yes to approve the Cabinet. Please!! |
| Date | not recorded |
From | Liberal Party of Telamon | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | u see gun ownership should allways be legal, because firearms have allways been in society and allways will. But in orded to keep firearms legal they need to be safe. So all we ask is a couple of tests to see if the firearm dudes can be trusted. in short thnx for agreeing |
| Date | not recorded |
From | United Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | No problem, just please in return for my agreement now support my Cabinet - at least so we can have a government that reflects the election. You don't have to agree with any other of my policies!! |
| Date | not recorded |
From | | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | There are several things wrong with this proposal, but I'll stick to the two most important ones. 1)"Anyone may own a gun" is not "strict license conditions". You are obviously bluffing. 2)Anyone will still be able to get a gun without a licens. What you will achieve is making them illegal and transferring some money from the gun industry to organized crime. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | Oh, and UCA: You already have a majority in the cabinet, you don't need to barter for that. If the communists are against, that's fine. If they get a position, I don't see how that is worse than more coersion. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | When revolutionaries want to register things you should be wary. The point of licensing is that the government get a list of all gun-owners. That comes really handy after the revolution when they need to disarm potential conterrevolutionaries. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | Liberal Party of Telamon | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | it works in many countries. look in the usa a bunch of school children got some guns and shot up may people and this happens often, and most of the time the crims own their own guns. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | Look at the USA, that happens in states were they need licenses too. And as for "criminals own their own guns": Very few legally purchased guns are used for crimes. They steal or buy their gouns illegaly, just as more people will do with your suggested law. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | United Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | I will hold off on providing absolute support until I can see whether the new Cabinet proposal is accepted. I realise that I should have a majority but it appears that there may be a bug which means that that majority (of 1) is not sufficient, if this is the case then I will have to create a new Cabinet probably including one member of the Communist Party to ensure a big enough majority to pass it. With regards to my bartering on this issue, I recall that in return for my agreement on this, the Communist Party was to support the existing Cabinet, not a new one in which they are included. If they insist on and it becomes necessary to offer them a place in government then I will have to look at this issue in much more detail before deciding which way I will vote. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | Yes. That is called bartering. You vote against your convictions on this to get support on that. It is not necessary, and I'd rather leave a cabinet place than see a bad bill passed. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | United Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | Yes, it is bartering and it is unfortunate but I want to see a government that reflects the wishes of the people. If that means giving away this bill which bare in mind does NOT ban guns but puts them under strict licensing conditions, then that is a price that I am prepared to pay. As I say under the compromise the Communist party would NOT enter government and therefore we would have a properly rightwing government. If your saying that you would rather include the Communists in government than pass this bill then ok, I'll consider it. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | United Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | But I still think it's better to gain the government Telamon deserves and pass this bill which whilst it may not be ideal, sometimes one has to compromise in politics and this I think is perhaps one of these times? |
| Date | not recorded |
From | | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | This bill does place it under the discretion of the government wether or not I get a gun. It enables them to give guns to their friends and wthhold them from other people. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | Giving up important decisions to maintain formal power is the fault of many real governments and helps keep all countries going to some "center" politics, whatever that is. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | However we don't need to include other people in the government until after the next election, so I don't see any reason to barter on that anyways. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | United Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | I suppose really we don't but if you look at the present Cabinet it is still offically a Communist one, until we pass a new proposal which has not yet happened. I would therefore like to see our Cabinet approved but like I said there appears to be a bug which means that a majority of 1 is not good enough. Therefore the 2 options available to us are to support (or at least abstain) on this bill in return for the Communists supporting our UCA-Liberal Coalition Cabinet as it is. OR to give the Communists a seat in the Cabinet in return for which they would support the Cabinet proposal and leave this issue out of the negotiations. It is not an ideal state of affairs and is one that should not have occured at all (I did take it up with game admin) but it has occured and so we need to deal with it. I personally am happy with either proposal really (NB if you have an email address, could you give it to me because there is something I wish to email to you). |
| Date | not recorded |
From | | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | Please check your party-page in a minute. |
| Date | not recorded |
From | United Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | Don't know whether you were trying to post a message on my party page, that would have been an ideal way to communicate, but it doesn't seem to have worked I have tried it before and it hasn't worked so we'll have to try something else |
| Date | not recorded |
From | | To | Debating the Gun Laws | | Message | Recieved and replied. |
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| Vote |
Seats |
| yes | Total Seats: 34 |
| no | Total Seats: 25 |
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: "Game mechanics comes first." For example, if a currently-enforced bill sets out one law, then a player cannot claim the government has set out a contradictory law. |
| Random quote: "There are people in the world so hungry that God cannot appear to them except in the form of bread." - Mahatma Gandhi
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