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Bill: Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act
Details
Submitted by[?]: Judicial Union Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: March 2533
Description[?]:
| An act to prevent the government extraditing any citizen of Tukarali. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The terms of extradition.
Old value:: Extradition to nations with capital punishment or with cruel or inhumane treatment of suspects and convicts is not allowed.
Current: Extradition to nations with capital punishment or with cruel or inhumane treatment of suspects and convicts is not allowed.
Proposed: The law bars the government from extraditing anyone who is a citizen of the state.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 12:29:37, February 14, 2008 CET | From | Judicial Union Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | How can we send one of our citizens to a foreign country to be tried by a government that is not their own. You know what citizenship means? It means that the citizen agrees to abide by our laws, and in turn we will protect that citizen. If a person has committed a crime, let them be tried by Tukarali law, not by the law of a foreign nation. |
| Date | 13:33:32, February 14, 2008 CET | From | Rightist Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | And if we want a citizen of another state if this passes, we won't get them. opposed. |
| Date | 20:57:28, February 14, 2008 CET | From | Judicial Union Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | That's not true, it depends on the law of their country. In principle, that person should be tried under the law of their country anyway. |
| Date | 21:23:22, February 14, 2008 CET | From | Rightist Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | Even if they commit a crime here? You're an idiot. |
| Date | 21:27:27, February 14, 2008 CET | From | Judicial Union Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | If we catch them before they leave the country, then they can be tried by our law in our courts. Then they can be deported. If they leave before we catch them, then we can prevent them entering the country again. The purpose of punishment is rehabilitation and incapacitation. Why would be rehabilitate someone who will be sent from our country immediately upon release, and sending them outside our borders is equivalently incapacitory. |
| Date | 22:03:20, February 14, 2008 CET | From | Rightist Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | "purpose of punishment is rehabilitation and incapacitation." "Why would be rehabilitate someone who will be sent from our country immediately upon release, and sending them outside our borders is equivalently incapacitory." You contradicted yourself. First you say the purpose of punishment is rehabilitation and incapacitation but then you turn right around and asked why we should rehabilitate someone from another country and that it is incapacitory to do so. You cannot have your cake and eat it to. A criminal is a criminal. If one of our citizens commits a crime in another nation and flees here, we have the responsibility to hand that nation over (provided it does not violate our extradition law) for trial and punishment. This is what "sensible" nations do. |
| Date | 22:17:51, February 14, 2008 CET | From | Judicial Union Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | Obviously you know nothing about the aims of punishment. You always failed to understand what we said. Rehabilitation is based on the idea that we punish someone so that they can become a contributing member of society. If we are going to send a person out of the country immediately after they have been rehabilitated, then they will not be a contributing member of society - they have left our society. Incapacitation is the principle tthat you imprison someone for the purposes of getting them away from other people. Sending them overseas is sufficient to get them away from our other citizens, and their home nation can deal with them. There are, of course, other aims of punishment, but anyone who believes retribution is a useful aim is deluded. We have a responsibility to protect our citizens, all our citizens. They are subject to Tukarali law here and internationally. If a person commits a murder in another country, then we will give them a trial and punish them here. If a person commits an act which is not a crime by Tukarali law, then they should not be punished for it. |
| Date | 22:40:35, February 14, 2008 CET | From | Rightist Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | "Obviously you know nothing about the aims of punishment. You always failed to understand what we said." I just quoted what you wrote. You contradicted yourself in the post and I called you on it. And yes. I know full well what punishment is fatass. We have a responsibility to execute the law and to make sure that if we have a citizen who committed a crime in another country, that they are handed over to that country provided it does not violate our extradition law. The same law you are trying to change. Let me put it to you this way! Politics is finicky. If one of our citizens is implicated in a crime and they want them and we have the proposed law on the books and don't. What do you think is going to happen if one of their citizens is implicated in a crime here and has fled to their home nation? Do you think we will have said crook if we refuse to hand over the person they want? |
| Date | 22:47:04, February 14, 2008 CET | From | Judicial Union Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | Why would we want that person? If they are not in our country, then they are not our concern, since it would be fruitless to punish them. And there was no contradiction. Idiot. |
| Date | 22:57:05, February 14, 2008 CET | From | Rightist Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | They committed a crime on our soil fucktard. Why would we want him? To bring him to trial. It goes to show that you are so full of shit its no longer amusing. |
| Date | 23:03:07, February 14, 2008 CET | From | Judicial Union Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | You are one of the people who feel that retribution is a good reason for punishment. You are, concordently, a deluded fool who would revert this nation back to the dark ages. Punishment costs money. If the only reason we are going to punish someone is that "you wronged us so we'll wrong you", well, two wrongs don't make a right. |
| Date | 23:04:27, February 14, 2008 CET | From | Rightist Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | Then why bother with having jails at all? If punishment costs money then let us abolish the department of justice. That way, we are not wasting money on punishing people that deserve to be punished. The only delusional one in this debate is you. |
| Date | 23:14:20, February 14, 2008 CET | From | Judicial Union Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | We have jails to incapacitate people who commit crimes, and to rehabilitate them so they can be productive members of society. It is beneficial for us to spend money on these people. However, if we have a foreigner who has committed a crime here, they will be deported immediately upon release from prison. They will never be productive members of society, since they will not be in our society. They will be incapacitated from being outside our borders as much as they would be from being in prison. There is no reason for them to go through our judicial system, when they can be punished by the laws of their nation. |
| Date | 02:51:12, February 15, 2008 CET | From | JDW Tukarali Greens Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | oppose for RP's reasons however I would favor stricter controls on who is extradited if that is a possible bill option |
| Date | 14:28:35, February 15, 2008 CET | From | Rightist Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | "However, if we have a foreigner who has committed a crime here, they will be deported immediately upon release from prison. They will never be productive members of society, since they will not be in our society." I stopped reading when I read this. JUP, there is more societies out there than just ours. They will be productive members of society even if they are not in our society. So why don't you shut your fucking mouth because it is obvious you know jack shit. |
| Date | 00:01:25, February 16, 2008 CET | From | Judicial Union Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | Tukarali is not the world's keeper. We have a responsibility to our citizens. Other nations have a responsibility for their citizens. |
| Date | 03:09:03, February 16, 2008 CET | From | Rightist Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | Except when they commit crimes on another person's territory then it is the business of Tukarali when a foreigner commits a crime on our soil fucktard |
| Date | 01:08:10, February 17, 2008 CET | From | Rightist Party | To | Debating the Citizenship (Extradition) Amendment Act |
| Message | defeated |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 172 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 328 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
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