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Bill: CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP

Details

Submitted by[?]: Conservative Party

Status[?]: passed

Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.

Voting deadline: June 2551

Description[?]:

Discussing about what position the Federal Commonwealth of Sekowo should take in this international issue: United Republics of Lodamun (http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewnation.php?nationid=19) invading the Free Republic of Lourenne (http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewnation.php?nationid=57).


Continental Treaty
------------------------
The Minister of Foreign Affairs of Lourenne, William Wyndhaven, has called for aid in this crisis based on a treaty ratified by the Folkstmma in July 2457.

"Dovani for the Dovanians" Treaty
http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewtreaty.php?treatyid=769


War Bills of Various Participating Nations:
---------------------------------------------------------
Lodamun: http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=178111

Lourenne: http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=180699
http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=180848

Hulstrian Union: http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=180796

Free Republic of Talmoria: http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=180843

---------------------
Lodamun has chosen to back down from its treat. http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=181370. Lodamun also expresses their wish to repair relations but no formal apology has yet been made. This debate will be put into archives.

Proposals

Debate

These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:

Date05:13:22, March 18, 2008 CET
FromConservative Party
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageThe CP feels a defensive military role should be taken. Protecting the shorelines of Sekowo and Lourenne. Our military force is larger and more powerful than that of Lodamun alone.

OOC: A.K.A., we could blow the living sh*t out of them, if need be. Especially if several nations support Lourenne.

Date13:27:33, March 18, 2008 CET
FromRevolutionary State Socialist Party
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageI think we should utterly wipe out their navy, to prevent any such action to be taken against Donavi in the near future.

Date16:18:38, March 18, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageAs this is an unprecedented incident the PSA has decided that, for diplomatic reasons it will officially work as a part of the Sekowan military during any upcoming fighting.


Further more we would suggest organizing a joint Dovani military command to co-ordinate the militaries of all of the participating Dovani nations in conflict.

Date17:03:17, March 18, 2008 CET
FromConservative Party
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageThe CP is encouraged by the DSP's decision to fight alongside its fellow Sekowans.

We agree with DSP that a joint-force approach would be best.

OOC: To make things more "fair", dividing the commands equally between nations. Except there are 4 Dovani nations possibly supporting military action.

Date17:07:35, March 18, 2008 CET
FromConservative Party
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageUSMC, it's possible. Their navy is quite small.

http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=180679

Lodamun is only expanding now. We have already spent 250 million SEK on our navy and they are properly trained.

And we have the army expansion which the Ministry of Defense is working on before submitting.

Date17:21:40, March 18, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
Message250 billion, not million.

We've spent over 300 billion on our Air Force as well.

Date17:46:32, March 18, 2008 CET
FromConservative Party
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageOOC: <sighs> Ja. I have to work out my million versus billion confusion. Keeps reoccuring. Perhaps its because Canada only spends in the millions on military. =D It affords us ... one leaky submarine from the British Royal Navy.

Date18:40:28, March 18, 2008 CET
FromRevolutionary State Socialist Party
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageExcellent, I say we take our their navy, then demand they surrender. (Not like we are going to be overly harsh in our terms)

Date19:20:07, March 18, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageOOC:
Well Canada has never had to spend as much on the military since its only land border is with the United States, and both countries are allies, so yeah.

Also, on a side note the United States spends roughly half a trillion dollars a year on the military.
Sekowo would come in 9th place if it were a real country in terms of annual military budget alotment.

Date19:23:13, March 18, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageAlso, I think you may be mistaking the million and billions with Canada's, since Canada spends roughly 17 billion on the Canadian forces a year.

Date20:24:08, March 18, 2008 CET
FromIndependence Coalition
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageNo where in the"Dovani for the Dovanians" Treaty does it specify that we must assist with military intervention, and frankly, it is appalling the parties of Sekowo are already sabre rattling instead of attempting a diplomatic solution to the issue at hand. When it comes to Brinkmanship is a losing game, and we refuse to play it. Should the people of Lourenne require political or humanitarian assistance we would gladly support an effort to make it available. Sekowo's military is meant to defend Sekowo, no every vagrant nation that comes knocking asking for a hand out.

Date20:35:23, March 18, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageThe treaty states that only Dovanian nations may lay claim to Dovani.
Lodamun is not a Dovanian nation.

Further more Lourenne is our closest ally, both geographically and politically and as such we should help them when they are essentially under threat of invasion.

Finally Lodamun has made its position clear that it intends to use military force to invade Lourenne's territory and as such is not likely to be diplomatic on the issue.

Date23:14:03, March 18, 2008 CET
FromPan-Sekowo Freedom Alliance
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageWe support defensive military action, and will offer our militia to help

Date03:43:53, March 19, 2008 CET
FromConservative Party
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageOOC: Iori, I meant the Canada thing as a joke. Our newscasters used to say it often on radio and TV in Canada because our military equipment requires some upgrading. Since 2001, the government has taken noticed of this. In the past few years (because of a huge surplus), they are investing more and more in the Canadian forces, which is great. We just purchased 100 Leopard 2 tanks, I think mostly A4s. Our main tank right now is the Leopard 1 which is from the 1960s and countries like Germany and Switzerland have phased them out in the 1990s. So, just about 15 years behind some other countries. But still ahead of the Montana Militia. That's what counts. =) Sadly, due to the U.S. economic situation, Canada will keep the surplus for safe keeping and depend on renting other military vehicles and aircraft.

Date03:45:52, March 19, 2008 CET
FromConservative Party
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageThe CP feels that an apology from the majority of the legislature of Lodamun should be given to the nations of Dovani.

Date04:41:23, March 19, 2008 CET
FromNormand Pluralist Party
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageWhile we agree with the Independence Coalition to an extent, we would like to remind them that the same matter could potentially happen to us. It is important that we act in solidarity on this issue to defend the rights of all.

However, we think a diplomatic solution would be immensely more preferable to quick military action. We wish Sekowo to only be involved as a last resort.

Date19:13:34, March 19, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageOOC:
Oh, ok, well humour does'nt translate wll without a 'lol', or an emoticon, but since we don't have those here the first one.

A lot of people in the U.S. (probably 60%) tend to think Canada has next to no military, almost like what they think of france, yet both countries are in the top 15 military spenders (France 2nd Canada 14th).
This makes me think to, the EU should form a comon military, if it did it would be close to the level fo the US in terms of military spending (just over 300 billion).

Date00:30:10, March 20, 2008 CET
FromRevolutionary State Socialist Party
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageOOC: Canada's air force is under US command though :D

Date04:54:23, March 20, 2008 CET
FromConservative Party
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageOOC: DSP, remember that Canada is identical (a bit larger) physical size to the U.S. Canada's military spending per square kilometre is noticeably smaller. As well, as against the country's GDP. Canada is 132th in the world in terms of % of GDP goes to military. United States is 28th. (According to CIA Factbook). And Canada is only so "high" because of the amount of extra cash spent on military in the past few years. DSP, the EU forming a common military will infringe too much on the nations. Organizations like NATO join the militaries by a "common goal". USMC, you might be right. ;)

Date04:57:32, March 20, 2008 CET
FromConservative Party
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageIt looks like Lodamun is having some more troubles and shouldn't be affecting Dovani for the short-term.

http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=181243

OOC: Someone has decided to setup a colony in their territory. How nice. =)

Date22:14:53, March 20, 2008 CET
FromRevolutionary State Socialist Party
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageOOC: Its because of NORAD lol

Date00:49:14, March 21, 2008 CET
From帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō)
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageOOC:
I've never really felt that measuring a country by how much of their GDP goes to the military was a good weigh to measure them in the matter.
I mean hell by that measure N. Korea and Cuba are way up there.

Also, as for the EU thing, well I think ti will happen, perhaps not in the next ten years, but the EU will eventually become a single sui generis state, perhaps a highly devolved Federation or something but anyways personally I don't really care about all this stuff about Sovereignty since I don't really believe in nations anyways, but rather the tenants of Democracy and Freedom.

Date08:12:53, March 22, 2008 CET
FromConservative Party
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageDue to Lodamun's apology to Lourenne, the military has lowered its alert status however it will still monitor Lodamun's actions. The Ministry of Defense leaves the handling of the Lodamun's diplomatic apology to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Peter Kurt Baumgartner
Minister of Defence

Date19:33:29, March 24, 2008 CET
FromConservative Party
ToDebating the CP.Debate Role in the Lodamun-Lourenne War RP
MessageLodamun has now ratified a treaty of Likatonia. Much like what we have for Dovani.

http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=181539

Standing united was a good idea. It scared Lodamun straight up.

CP thanks all parties that stood up for Dovani and prays that the parties who opposed standing together with our fellow continentals will do so next time.

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Voting

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Total Seats: 399

no

    Total Seats: 0

    abstain
       

    Total Seats: 201


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