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Bill: Retirement Age
Details
Submitted by[?]: Liberal Party of Telamon
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 2040
Description[?]:
| Lets just say that the average person lives to 80. From 0 to 20 they would usually getting an education and training. then from 20 to 60 they will work. and have the last 20 years of their life for relaxation. so that would equal 40 years working, 20 years learning and 20 years relaxing. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The professional retirement age.
Old value:: 62
Current: 66
Proposed: 60
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | not recorded | From | Partiya Nacionalnogo Progressa | To | Debating the Retirement Age |
| Message | In my country average person lives to 66 :( We don't know Telamon situation. |
| Date | not recorded | From | To | Debating the Retirement Age |
| Message | Here it is ~=80. Lowering the retirement age might not besuch a good idea though. Even if we sometimes simulate the real world, this is a game. Furthermore it is a game in developement, and some of the things to come soon is an economy, a market and war. When this comes it will be an advantage, and maybe necessary for survival, to have high production. And a suggestion from the game devekoper is that production should be proportional to the difference between the retirement age and the age at which people become adult. So to be strong players at the start, if this comes true, we should increase retirement-age and decrease adult-age. |
| Date | not recorded | From | To | Debating the Retirement Age |
| Message | Also, this is true in the real world at least in big parts of the west. Many people were born in the 1940-s, a lot fewer in later decades (except the 1960-s). This means with a retirement age around 60 the working population is decreasing rapidly right now. Thus it is an extra important competitive advantage to increase the time people work, and give them a wider choice as for retirement age. Since many retire before the "professional retirement age" but very few after, that means increasing rather than decreasing retirement age. |
| Date | not recorded | From | Partiya Nacionalnogo Progressa | To | Debating the Retirement Age |
| Message | [QUOTE]So to be strong players at the start, if this comes true, we should increase retirement-age and decrease adult-age. [/QUOTE] It sounds so libertarian :) |
| Date | not recorded | From | United Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Retirement Age |
| Message | In the UK, the professional retirement age is 65, if would support raising it to that, although without knowing the average life expectancy for Telamon (which at the present time we have no way of knowing) it is difficult to decide on a retirement age. We also feel that people should have the right to work as long as they want, many employers do discriminate against people who have passed the retirement age and seek to force people to retire at that age. To this end we believe that the retirement age should be higher and not lower. However we also recognise the right of people to retire and enjoy themselves in later life and feel that as the retirement age is when any pension begins to be paid, the retirement ages should not be too high to allow those who do want to retire to do so. Therefore a compromise is in order and we would probably support any age around 60-70, but feel that 65 is ok or stick with the present 62. |
| Date | not recorded | From | To | Debating the Retirement Age |
| Message | That statement was entirely out of character. The whole idea of a public retirement system is very unlibertarian. The effective and the Right system would be that every person saved as much as /s/he wanted, and then retired whenever /s/he wanted to or thought /s/he had enough. The idea that the state (or as here, the union) decide how I invest my salary is repulsive. |
| Date | not recorded | From | United Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Retirement Age |
| Message | Yes, it was slightly out of character and does reflect a slight anomaly in my beliefs. You are right that the whole idea of a public retirement system is not good. I didn't you will recall mention state pensions and I would rather that there was no retirement age at all. However, there is a retirement age set by the state. No one is telling anyone how to invest their salary, but as you will know from the real world, rightly or wrongly there is a state retirement age (& usually a state pension though that is irrelevent here) it is at this age that many employers force people to retire. I believe that that is wrong, and as you say everyone should be able to retire when they want. However in this case there is a retirement age, there is no way to remove the retirement age completely and therefore the argument is what that age should be. I notice in an earlier post you mentioned that we should increase the retirement age and decrease the adult age (the one thing I would point out though is that you say this is to increase production, that therefore assumes that people would work up to this new retirement age and not 'retire when ever he/she wanted to' as your last post said), you will notice that my suggestion is to increase the retirement age and that I have proposed another bill which seeks to reduce the adult age, therefore doing exactly what it would appear that you want? |
| Date | not recorded | From | To | Debating the Retirement Age |
| Message | UCA: Thanks. And my reply was to PNP's post with the quotes. The OOC-comment was mine, about the game features. Oh, and if we increase retirement age (in the real world) that gives a slight increase of liberty and a slight increase in production. Most people would retire the same time as they do anyways. In Sweden legal retirement age is between 62 and 67, but the average retirement age is under 60. |
| Date | not recorded | From | United Liberal Alliance | To | Debating the Retirement Age |
| Message | Sorry, my mistake in misunderstanding your remarks and to whom they were intended!! |
| Date | not recorded | From | To | Debating the Retirement Age |
| Message | UCA: My bad, should have made clear who the comment was for, since the content didn't do that. |
| Date | not recorded | From | Partiya Nacionalnogo Progressa | To | Debating the Retirement Age |
| Message | Good idea |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||
| yes | Total Seats: 34 | ||
| no | Total Seats: 25 | ||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
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