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Bill: Prisoner Labor
Details
Submitted by[?]: United Socialist Peoples Party
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: December 2563
Description[?]:
| If prisoners were allowed to earn money in prison for when they are released, they would be less likely to commit a crime upon returning to society as they would not be in desperate need of money. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Prison policy concerning prisoner labor.
Old value:: Prisoners are interned and do not work in prisons.
Current: Prisoners can do certain jobs in prison, voluntarily, for a small wage.
Proposed: Prisoners can do certain jobs in prison, voluntarily, for a small wage.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 04:16:49, April 18, 2008 CET | From | Conservative Ordo Malleus (COM) | To | Debating the Prisoner Labor |
| Message | While we see the logic in the USPP's argument we do not believe prisoners should be rewarded for their mis-deeds no matter how small. -Thorden Raxney |
| Date | 04:24:22, April 18, 2008 CET | From | United Socialist Peoples Party | To | Debating the Prisoner Labor |
| Message | The COM party has a point, however we do not feel this would be rewarding the prisoners. The opportunity to support oneself is not a reward, but a right. This is merely an opportunity for prisoners to improve themselves, as opposed to providing them with a time to reinforce their disgust for the conventions of society. |
| Date | 06:21:30, April 18, 2008 CET | From | Telamon Minarchist Party | To | Debating the Prisoner Labor |
| Message | Prisoners with nothing to do are more prone to being restless, shiftless and causing problems for the guards and staff; subsequently we feel this bill provides a good opportunity to prevent those problems. We will support. Lenny Nozick Too Lazy To Give Himself Another Title, Telamon Anarcho-Capitalist Party |
| Date | 10:24:20, April 18, 2008 CET | From | Democratic Capitalist Delegation | To | Debating the Prisoner Labor |
| Message | We believe that providing prisoners with a structural activity, such as work, would be immeasurably helpful in teaching discipline and responsibility, as well as being an essential element in the rehabilitation and preparation of inmates' return to society. James Lott Chairman Democratic Capitalist Delegation |
| Date | 19:22:27, April 18, 2008 CET | From | Conservative Ordo Malleus (COM) | To | Debating the Prisoner Labor |
| Message | We are not against their working while in prison. We are, however, against their being compensated for their work. -Thorden Raxney |
| Date | 19:23:36, April 18, 2008 CET | From | Social Democratic Party | To | Debating the Prisoner Labor |
| Message | We would also support a COM revision to the value of prisoners having to work without wage in prison. |
| Date | 22:38:52, April 18, 2008 CET | From | Democratic Capitalist Delegation | To | Debating the Prisoner Labor |
| Message | It is an important part of the rehabilitation process that these inmates experience the fruits of their labors in order to understand the appeal of a legitimate and law-abiding lifestyle. Our biggest problem with the COM proposed revision however, is that it implies that inmates would be forced to perform hard, manual labor. We believe we can train and encourage inmates to perform service based jobs as well, and that it would better equip them to re-enter our society. These inmates are already being punished by virtue of the fact that they are locked away, told what to do, and when to do it. They are stripped of all liberties and freedoms, and we believe that rewarding good work is a necessity to their proper rehabilitation. If the small wages of prisoners is truly an alarming issue though, we believe we may have a solution. We propose that additional clauses be passed mandating the use of prisoner's wages to pay for "room and board," and for food, liberties which the prisons currently provide free of charge. This would ultimately leave the inmates with little to no reward money, while still encouraging work and teaching responsibility. If this solution is unacceptable to the COM, then we propose the COM provide additional clauses to their proposed bill which implements a reward system and offers service jobs in addition to hard labor. James Lott Chairman Democratic Capitalist Delegation |
| Date | 23:23:31, April 18, 2008 CET | From | Conservative Ordo Malleus (COM) | To | Debating the Prisoner Labor |
| Message | Nowhere in the COM sponsored legislation does it say, mandate, or require that prisoners perform hard labor. The bill proposes that able-bodied (those who are not sick, bedridden, or differently abled) work during the day. That allows them to be productive, it does not mandate what kind of work, during the day and leaving them free to sleep and rest at night. It is quite reasonable and we are saddened that the DCD has chosen to interpret it in a negative light when no such apparatus was provided. That said, we cannot support this legislation because it rewards prisoners for their illegal actions. -Thorden Raxney COM Party Leader |
| Date | 23:36:22, April 18, 2008 CET | From | Democratic Capitalist Delegation | To | Debating the Prisoner Labor |
| Message | That point clarified, we still believe that the positive reinforcement of lawful work is essential to proper rehabilitation of offenders. We believe that our prisons need to be not only institutions of punishment and penitence, but of rehabilitation, re-learning, and preparation. James Lott Chairman Democratic Capitalist Delegation |
| Date | 01:25:21, April 19, 2008 CET | From | Conservative Ordo Malleus (COM) | To | Debating the Prisoner Labor |
| Message | Rewarding people for murder, rape, fraud, identity theft, grand theft, and treason isn't something we should do. -Thorden Raxney |
| Date | 02:15:17, April 19, 2008 CET | From | Democratic Capitalist Delegation | To | Debating the Prisoner Labor |
| Message | You are absolutely right. However, it is not murder, rape, fraud, identity theft, grand theft, or treason that we would be rewarding. For that, they are stripped of their civil liberties and locked down in prisons. What we should reward however is a decision to engage in honest hard work which could teach and reinforce skills that would help the respective inmate to behave with discipline upon release, providing him to with the tools to support a legitimate life style. This way, he might not repeat the offenses of murder, rape, fraud, identity theft, grand theft, or treason. James Lott Chairman Democratic Capitalist Delegation |
| Date | 03:22:50, April 19, 2008 CET | From | Conservative Ordo Malleus (COM) | To | Debating the Prisoner Labor |
| Message | Individuals get into prison because they murdered, raped, were fraudulent, stole identities, ruined people's lives, and are treasonous. They can be reformed but they are in prison because of their illegal actions. They are in prison to be punished for their actions and to be reformed so that they do not engage in illegal activities again. Giving them money is the same as saying it is okay for someone to murder another because they'll be locked up for a bit but at least they don't have to pay for that and on top of it the government will pay them. They need to prove that they won't engage in criminal acts before they can earn rewards. Being in prison is not sufficient proof. After they are released they can become upstanding members of society and be rewarded for their positive behavior. Not before. -Thorden Raxney COM Party Leader |
| Date | 20:51:07, April 20, 2008 CET | From | Democratic Capitalist Delegation | To | Debating the Prisoner Labor |
| Message | Firstly, we would like to point out that there is a fundamental difference between being given money, and working to earn it. I would say that anyone should be rewarded for any kind of positive behavior at any time, just as they should be punished for their negative behavior. An inmate who continues to make poor choices after entering prison by being active in gang activity will be punished for the violence he takes part in. Also, a prisoner who chooses to make constructive decisions after entering the system should be rewarded for making the effort to turn his life around. No man who wants to better himself or turn his life around should have to wait to be released from prison. If they were not allowed to perform constructive activities prior to release, then those seeking to better themselves would be forced to fall back into destructive patterns which would inevitably lead to a lengthened sentence or re-offense. James Lott Chairman Democratic Capitalist Delegation |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 284 | ||||
| no | Total Seats: 217 | ||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: It is possible for a player to transfer ownership of a character or a royal house to another player. This should be done in a public way, such as on the Character Transfers thread, so that if a dispute arises in the future, Moderation can be pointed towards evidence of the transfer. |
| Random quote: "I have opinions of my own - strong opinions. But I don't always agree with them." - George W. Bush |