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Bill: Repentence earned through work
Details
Submitted by[?]: Royal Conservative Party
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: June 2113
Description[?]:
| Our prisons shall be focused on punishing criminals for their crimes. All prisoners shall be required to perform some form of work appropriate to their ability for 50 hours per week. The type of work shall be determined by the local authorities and prison management. In no case shall criminals be given an opportunity to escape, nor shall violent criminals be allowed to work in areas where they pose a possible threat to the public. The prison management shall be responsible for assigning work to inmates appropriate to their risk and crimes committed. They shall be required to accomplish certain tasks assigned or suggested by the local governments where the prisons exist, they shall be required to be cost-effective in regard to the costs of supervision and the benefits of the work being done. Prisoners having a high likelihood of escape attempts shall be required to perform work within the prison. The local authorities and prison management shall have the right to use discretion regarding this law, the work to be accomplished, and the manner in which it is done. They shall be held liable for the prisoners under their power. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Prison policy concerning prisoner labor.
Old value:: Prisoners can do certain jobs in prison, voluntarily, for a small wage.
Current: Prisoners can do certain jobs in prison, voluntarily, for a small wage.
Proposed: Able-bodied prisoners have to work during the day.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 20:00:47, September 17, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Repentence earned through work |
| Message | http://82.238.75.178:8085/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=15512 |
| Date | 20:20:12, September 17, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Repentence earned through work |
| Message | in addition to the arguments in that debate -- forced labour in prisons is a counter-productive strategy likely to make crime much worse -- we hope that the Chorus of Amyst still feels as it did about prison rehabilitation when the rehabilitation system was first introduced: http://82.238.75.178:8085/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=2184 |
| Date | 21:41:25, September 17, 2005 CET | From |  Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Repentence earned through work |
| Message | I will support either forced labor, or no labor. Paying them any wage, out of taxpayer's pockets, while their living expenses are already being paid for, that I object to. |
| Date | 03:53:01, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Repentence earned through work |
| Message | not going to repeat all the arguments already made why this actually saves money, and actually helps in rehabilitation. |
| Date | 06:11:36, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Repentence earned through work |
| Message | Would you support the "no work" option as a more permanent plan? |
| Date | 11:05:36, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Royal Conservative Party | To | Debating the Repentence earned through work |
| Message | I would not. Prisoners should be made to work for the benefit of society in return for the fact that it is the state who is feeding them and giving them shelter. Therefore they should work for that privilege. |
| Date | 11:14:53, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Repentence earned through work |
| Message | I agree, however, there are certain problems with this plan. I suggest a very good movie "The Shawshank Redemption" to illustrate how work programs can equal corruption. However, I will support either option but the current one, preferably the proposed one. |
| Date | 20:39:15, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Democractic Socialist Party of Lodamun | To | Debating the Repentence earned through work |
| Message | "Prisoners should be made to work for the benefit of society in return for the fact that it is the state who is feeding them and giving them shelter. Therefore they should work for that privilege." It appalls me what a narrow, unenlightened view of criminals some people still uphold. |
| Date | 23:20:28, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Repentence earned through work |
| Message | the problem isn't so much the views, it's that the bill would make things much worse, increase the cost of the prison system, and increase crime rates. The only honest "law and order" stance is to oppose this pro-crime bill. |
| Date | 12:00:24, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Royal Conservative Party | To | Debating the Repentence earned through work |
| Message | "It appalls me what a narrow, unenlightened view of criminals some people still uphold." Well I personally object to paying my tax to provide food, medical assistance and shelter to murderers, theives and rapists so they can sit inside their cells all day, watching television and attending the occasional media studies lecture. Criminals are usually in prison beacuse they broken the law, because they have committed some sort of sin against society as a whole. Why then should society (the victim of the malevolence of criminals) then subsidise these people with no hope of any return? If prisoners work on projects like road building, litter picking, graffiti clean up and other menial community based tasks, then they are at least attempting to earn both redemption and their keep. |
| Date | 13:08:15, September 19, 2005 CET | From | National People's Gang | To | Debating the Repentence earned through work |
| Message | Sin and crime are not the same thing. |
| Date | 15:32:18, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Repentence earned through work |
| Message | Paying wages is NOT a subsidy. It is a savings to the taxpayer, by rediucing the amount of person-years of prison we have to fund. This is a PRO-CRIME BILL. Well done: you have increased the crime rate, the recidivism rate, and the cost to the taxpayer. What a criminally stupid act. |
| Date | 17:54:13, September 19, 2005 CET | From | National People's Gang | To | Debating the Repentence earned through work |
| Message | A few years ago someone had a similar "good idea" when the government gave the go-ahead for a new centre for young offenders. They got young offenders to build the new building. Consequently it has since cost a fortune to try to make it secure. In many places you can push a hole in the wall with your bare hands, they had to redig the entire waste system because so many bags of cement had been dropped into it during construction and the roof doesn't fit properly. |
| Date | 20:38:24, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Royal Conservative Party | To | Debating the Repentence earned through work |
| Message | "Paying wages is NOT a subsidy. It is a savings to the taxpayer, by rediucing the amount of person-years of prison we have to fund. This is a PRO-CRIME BILL. Well done: you have increased the crime rate, the recidivism rate, and the cost to the taxpayer. What a criminally stupid act." I have yet to see such statistics grace Lodamun. Anyone who does produce them will of course be godmodding until the game is upgraded to include things like prison cost and crime rate. Only then, my dear fellow, will your claims be substaniated. Until that happy day, I shall live in the knowledge that my LOD aren't paying scumbags for voluntary work. Also Refuseniks, sin is not crime if used in a biblical/religious context. However I used it to denote that some wrong had committed. ((OOC: Any RL references to back your arguments should be in brackets so we know which parts of your claims can be dismissed before we even begin to read. RL arguments effect RL but this is Lodamun, not RL)) |
| Date | 21:09:13, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Repentence earned through work |
| Message | ((ah, that old chestnut. In that case, i declare that members of the Greens can fly, since we have not passed any Law of Gravity in Lodamun.)) |
| Date | 21:11:21, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Cooperative Commonwealth Federation | To | Debating the Repentence earned through work |
| Message | ((however, the preference for in-game arguments is noted, and we will feel free to draw on it next time the nuclear deterrence argument comes up.)) |
| Date | 21:51:31, September 19, 2005 CET | From | Tuesday Is Coming | To | Debating the Repentence earned through work |
| Message | Out of context post, not concerning prisons either: I disagree with the RCP here. As no actual data exists in game, but the game is designed to model real life politics and laws, the only data available for most things comes from the real world. As most political plans are based at least partially on real world data or expectations, such data should not be excluded from discussion. I particularly enjoy discussing political subjects, especially with those I disagree with(or else when I am supporting a subject I actually disagree with). I find it to be an engaging mental excersise, and this is one of the reasons that I play Particracy. If you look on the forum, you will see several recent discussions/debates that I have had with various people whom I disagree with on some issue. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 161 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 139 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: "Jezvraljogadsrlji" means "Social" in the Jelbic languages. |
| Random quote: " A government which robs Peter to pay Paul, can always count on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw |