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Bill: Right to Healthcare
Details
Submitted by[?]: Social Democratic Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: March 2113
Description[?]:
| 1. Wealth will not equal health. Given the well known fact that if you are alive that you are alive, and if you are dead then you are dead. The rich and poor definitions of alive and dead are well equal. 2. Free up state heathcare for those that NEED it, and not those that can afford it. 3. More money for other state-provided benefits. 4. Forces the rich to actually USE their money, and doesn't let the rich get carried in thrones by the state. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Health care policy.
Old value:: Health care is entirely public and free; private clinics are banned.
Current: Health care is entirely private.
Proposed: Health care is private, but is paid for by the state for people with low incomes.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 07:31:10, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Social Democratic Party | To | Debating the Right to Healthcare |
| Message | Oh yeah, and no one should have to die when it can be prevented. If it can be prevented, why let them die? Because we're treating everyone equal? Is it considered true equality when we have an indirect genocide of all citizens in this socialist "paradise"? |
| Date | 10:07:12, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Chinkopodian Economic Democrats | To | Debating the Right to Healthcare |
| Message | I couldn't have put it better myself. Hear hear. |
| Date | 13:02:24, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Right to Healthcare |
| Message | 1. so the 'poor' should die faster you say? it doesn't matter beceause the rich also die many years older... so they both die, no problemo! 2. so people should invest all they're money in healthcare just to stay alive... and they dont have low income... medium income can already get into trouble! 3. we could also undo your privatizations! that'll give us far more money! 4. ok, so they use they're money for themselves... how great is that... increasing egoism! 5. i wanted to ask you the same thing... Cuban healthcare is of higher qaulity then what healthcare whatsoever in the entire america's including Canada and the U.S., Actually private healthcare is of far lower qaulity then public healthcare (unless they have to compete with public healthcare off course). To prevent costs etc... Also this will create a bourgeouisie living over the backs of others suffering... |
| Date | 13:14:35, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Right to Healthcare |
| Message | i have to re-state 1 and 5 (re-read it) at 1 i said the poor should die faster and all but they're thingy is payed. Si take that back, but my point still stands that it's hard for some to pay the healthcare even though they wont be low income. and 5 i said it'll create a bourgeouisie living over the sufferings of others, thats always the case so it was no need stating that. Still you'll understand my point i think. Also you cant trust the private sector at such important things as this! |
| Date | 13:37:07, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Chinkopodian Economic Democrats | To | Debating the Right to Healthcare |
| Message | 1. No Commie, both will get better healthcare. The rich will receive private healthcare, the poor will receive much better public healthcare due to the amount of money being concentrated on less people. Both private and public should then be about equal. 2. You really think all private healthcare industries will push their prices up? There's something called a competitive environment. There is no world-wide conspiracy among private companies, despite what you think. 3. Errrr.....please explain how that works. You see, it's cost money to undo privatisations, and we'll be paying for nationalised industry again....at present we don't put money into private companies - BECAUSE THEY'RE PRIVATE. So....no. 4. So what you're saying, Commie, is that you want all of their healthcare to be paid for by the state, wasting government money when they can easily afford to pay for their own. That increases selfishness and greed. Not only this, but.....the majority of money is spent on yourself in any society! Shock horror! I take it you don't want people to buy anything for themselves then....your policies get stranger every day. 5. Errrr.....no. You see, there's this little thing called competition among private companies....it means that prices are usually driven down as opposed to up. And as the rich have money, all it means is that the person who is running the clinic receives income when people need to go and see the doctor, of no serious expense to the latter. The reason why private health clinics won't be able to make massive profits is that if the prices are high, one clinic will set them to a low price - which would mean that clinic would attract almost all the people and the other clinics will not gain any income. So they'd lower their prices below that....and so it goes on. On the trust issue....ummm, yes you can. You see, if a private company does anything untrustworthy, people will move to another one (on another note, you can't do that with nationalised healthcare, so if the national healthcare system does something wrong, things will stay the same). This means that private clinics will be forced to be very careful - otherwise they'll lose all of their clients. So if anything the private sector is MORE trustworthy. You either seem to have a biased view of private healthcare, or you seem to believe that this would result in one massive private healthcare company having a monopoly over middle-high income healthcare. Well, either way, you're wrong. |
| Date | 15:16:36, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Right to Healthcare |
| Message | 1. read the bill: healthcare is private, no public healthcare... 2. haha, well you might think otherwise but you should follow the news more often... illegal price-deals etc... Or spliting up customers. 3. Actually you only get money from privatization... if you sell a company you get money but thats just short term on the long run you'll lose... We dont put money in the companies but get almost nothing from them either... 4. No, you should just not pay for an important thing such as healthcare. It's actually a kind of sick thought... 5. In theory it's all great! And all workers will live in this great utopic little world, beceause the wealth of the country increases so they're wealth increases with it! how great!... in theory. I gave you a couple of RL examples where the prices rose, give me an actual example of capitalist economy where prices have actually fallen at such a high rate! Ahaah so the clinic with lowest costs will get most money! mneaning they need less personel and less good equipment! which creates a sphere in which only the wealthy will receive the best healtchare! Also if private companies will be competetive they wont work together which creates another difficult point... They will off course on the thrust issue not lose 'customers' beceause cheap healthcare companies will out-compete the more expensive (elite) companies. Some hospitals will go bankrupt costs for healthcare will rise (healthcare isn't a cheap industry so they need to earn everything back). And we'll have a huge lack of medical personel! how great is that! |
| Date | 17:03:14, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Progressive Democratic Alliance | To | Debating the Right to Healthcare |
| Message | I could go for a compromise. |
| Date | 17:31:46, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Social Libertarian party | To | Debating the Right to Healthcare |
| Message | We win anyway, so I don't have to debate:D |
| Date | 18:13:07, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Social Democratic Party | To | Debating the Right to Healthcare |
| Message | "i wanted to ask you the same thing... Cuban healthcare is of higher qaulity then what healthcare whatsoever in the entire america's including Canada and the U.S., Actually private healthcare is of far lower qaulity then public healthcare (unless they have to compete with public healthcare off course). To prevent costs etc... Also this will create a bourgeouisie living over the backs of others suffering..." Little Cuba does NOT have a population of 250+ million people. Less money is needed, per capita spending is higher. |
| Date | 18:13:31, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Social Democratic Party | To | Debating the Right to Healthcare |
| Message | "We win anyway, so I don't have to debate:D" Wonderful. |
| Date | 18:21:30, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Right to Healthcare |
| Message | "Little Cuba does NOT have a population of 250+ million people. Less money is needed, per capita spending is higher." Then why dont Jamaica and Haiti have such good healthcare! |
| Date | 18:21:47, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Right to Healthcare |
| Message | (also the income is higher in a higher and especially as developed nation as the U.S.) |
| Date | 18:22:23, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Right to Healthcare |
| Message | the 2nd higher is bigger (damn i need to eat my rate of thinking is slowing down :P) |
| Date | 18:24:54, September 18, 2005 CET | From | Libertarian party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Right to Healthcare |
| Message | the 2nd higher is bigger (damn i need to eat my rate of thinking is slowing down :P) |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes | Total Seats: 67 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 108 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 26 |
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