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Bill: The formation of schools.
Details
Submitted by[?]: Am Echad, Pays Libre
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: January 2577
Description[?]:
| Due to Beiteynu's diverse population, schools are divided into four groups: state schools, state religious schools, minority schools, and private schools. State schools will be attended by the majority of pupils State religious schools are aimed towards Orthodox Jewish, Christian children, and non-Orthodox religious Jewish children with emphasis on Biblical studies, tradition and observance. Minority schools have teaching in Arabic and other Minor used languages and focus on the History of the Minority, religion and culture, whilst the private school sector operates under various different organizations, and as such focus on different aspects of education. Kids will be able to opt-out of religious schools (or in to) (or to another) when they are seen ready by the religion of the institute they are leaving. (After Bat or Bar Mitzvah or religious equivalent) if the institute is secular or if there is no equivalent then at the age of 13. we will open Secular Humanist "religous" schools and have them running for 4 years after this bill passes. If parents are wild about the idea then we will keep them running. If they hate the idea or if not many parents wish to send their kids, we will close the schools down or turn them into charter schools. All Public schools will fallow the guidelines listed in Education Standards |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 17:28:03, May 06, 2008 CET | From | Archon Revolutionary Militia | To | Debating the The formation of schools. |
| Message | "We do not agree with state-sponsored segregation through "minority schools" (OOC: you'd have to change the law on educational segregation in order to propose such a measure anyway). That is a right that should only belong to private institutions - the state has no business discriminating, as all people of Beiteynu are common taxpayers. Furthermore, we will not permit the creation of state religious schools UNLESS there is some sort of clause in the law that requires the child willingly give consent to the attendance of the school. Sincerity must be determined by a psychologist to make sure that the parents are not threatening their children with abuse to attend religious schools against the will of the children. Also, we will only support religious secondary schools and universities. We will not support religious primary schools or religious preschools. And we do not agree that "Education Standards" should apply to private schools, and, as per law, they will not anyway. It is against the law to regulate private schools." -Judy Gottlos, Head Archon of the ARM |
| Date | 20:28:41, May 06, 2008 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the The formation of schools. |
| Message | The minority schools are for parents that want there children tought in the way of there people be Arab, Sekowan,or Ptek. The only difference between them and other schools is the fact they will teach in that language. if it is an arab school it will be in Arabic, and so on and so forth. Attendance at a religious schools will be at the consent of the parents. They will be able to choose themselves at the age they leave their parents home and control. (when they are no longer a minor I guess) or if they have become an emancipated minor. This will not be standards for private schools just public. |
| Date | 21:12:51, May 06, 2008 CET | From | Archon Revolutionary Militia | To | Debating the The formation of schools. |
| Message | "We don't need state schools teaching in foreign languages. If people want to immigrate to this country, they should learn Hebrew or English. And if they want to learn about their heritage, they can take classes in the standard state schools, or they can go to a library and pick up a good book on the subject and read. Or they could ask their grandparents! Forcing a minor into a religion, regardless of the religion, against his or her will is pure child abuse - plain and simple. It is not only immoral that we allow upper-middle-class and wealthy parents to force their children into religious private schools against their own wills, but it is even more sick when the state is actually sponsoring this terror. If you are not going to grant freedom of religion to adolescents, we cannot possibly support this bill. Besides, students that don't want to be in the religious schools are going to become militantly anti-religious, reclusive, and constantly interfere with the learning process for the other students at the religious schools. And the students that don't have the courage to rebel or get themselves kicked out of school are going to be even more spitefully, violently, and militantly anti-religious than the courageous ones, and are going to cause major problems for society when they become adults." -Judy Gottlos, Head Archon of the ARM |
| Date | 21:15:46, May 06, 2008 CET | From | Archon Revolutionary Militia | To | Debating the The formation of schools. |
| Message | "There is an old saying that the Bible is the strongest argument against religion ever contrived. All you're going to do by forcing unwilling children into religious schools is create even more fanatical anti-theists, and divide society down the middle into two warring factions." -Judy Gottlos, Head Archon of the ARM |
| Date | 22:11:06, May 06, 2008 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the The formation of schools. |
| Message | If how about the parents choose for them and the children make the last choice over the age of 13. |
| Date | 21:00:47, May 07, 2008 CET | From | Archon Revolutionary Militia | To | Debating the The formation of schools. |
| Message | "We really shouldn't be running state religious schools on the primary level of education. It is encouraging the violation of the freedom of religion for the children. We might be authoritarian Archons, but we are not totalitarians, and are not bent on mind control, and we don't want to alienate the non-religious anymore than they already are." -Judy Gottlos, Head Archon of the ARM |
| Date | 11:56:46, May 09, 2008 CET | From | Jewish Mothers' Union | To | Debating the The formation of schools. |
| Message | We are keen that the state religious schools sector should include provision for non-Orthodox religious Jews. Melanie Koffenbaum (Foreign Affairs Minister and Leader of the JMU) |
| Date | 16:25:32, May 09, 2008 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the The formation of schools. |
| Message | would you support this if it included a non-orthodox religouse school. |
| Date | 22:50:28, May 09, 2008 CET | From | Archon Revolutionary Militia | To | Debating the The formation of schools. |
| Message | "As long as we're satisfying all these conditions, we would like state "religious" schools specifically for accommodating the irreligious and that are geared towards Secular Humanism and other secular philosophies and their histories. Of course, these state Jewish and Christian religious schools and state irreligious "religious" schools should exist on only the secondary education level and higher. We would vote in favor under those two terms." -Judy Gottlos, Head Archon of the ARM |
| Date | 23:19:53, May 09, 2008 CET | From | Jewish Mothers' Union | To | Debating the The formation of schools. |
| Message | Yes we would. Melanie Koffenbaum (Minister of Foreign Affairs & Leader of the JMU) |
| Date | 00:10:18, May 10, 2008 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the The formation of schools. |
| Message | Nope, they will exist for all levels. See parents want there children to learn in a way that enhances their morals. religious parents see that secular schools just contradict them and there values. If we have schools that leach people but at the same time teach morals, parents will be happy. That is why these schools must last from kindergarten to university. Sure, the kids will except other values from the world we live in, that is why after 13 kids make the last choice if they want to go to that school or not. The idea of Secular "religious" schools defeats the purpose and in itself is a oxymoron. If parents want there kids to lean about secular humanism, they would learn about it in school, in an unbiased manner. If they want to lean more, they can take unbiased classes on it and read books about it. However there are no rules on how to carry yourself or a power to pray too, or anything that make a religion a religion. So we will not have these schools. --Tzipora Malka "Tzipi" Livni, Minister of Education and Culture |
| Date | 15:54:23, May 10, 2008 CET | From | Archon Revolutionary Militia | To | Debating the The formation of schools. |
| Message | ""See parents want there children to learn in a way that enhances their morals." Is it not the job of a good parent to teach their children morals themselves? Schools are meant to educate, not to preach. Schools are not substitutes for good parents. "If parents want there kids to lean about secular humanism, they would learn about it in school, in an unbiased manner." So in other words, you want children of religious parents to be raised in a biased manner, but you don't want to permit the same thing to the non-religious? This is nothing but hypocrisy. "However there are no rules on how to carry yourself...[in humanism]" Yes there are. Perhaps you should read about Humanism yourself before you make broad generalizations about something you don't even understand." -Judy Gottlos, Head Archon of the ARM |
| Date | 19:35:47, May 10, 2008 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the The formation of schools. |
| Message | Well if Secular Humanists need to learn there way let them set up a charter school. Secular Public schools will not show any bias towards and belief or thought. . It is the job of parents to teach there kids morals but they would like their kids to go to a schools that runs itself by the way of there reliigion. In ways like serving Koser, Prayers in school, ect. |
| Date | 09:28:42, May 11, 2008 CET | From | Archon Revolutionary Militia | To | Debating the The formation of schools. |
| Message | ""Secular Public schools will not show any bias towards and belief or thought." That's self-evident. A school geared towards Humanistic philosophy would be biased, but a secular school is inherently neutral towards religion and therefore does not show any bias. "Well if Secular Humanists need to learn there way let them set up a charter school." If you want that attitude, how about making religious parents have to set up state-paid religious schools as charter schools as well? I smell discrimination. "It is the job of parents to teach there kids morals but they would like their kids to go to a schools that runs itself by the way of there reliigion. In ways like serving Koser, Prayers in school, ect." These things are just as elective as irreligious children to irreligious parents getting Humanistic education! These things are not necessary, they are simply a measure of comfort! If you can't provide to everyone, or at least the major minorities, without major discrimination, then let's just drop this hypocritical proposal and make state religious schools all be charter schools!" -Judy Gottlos, Head Archon of the ARM |
| Date | 13:38:35, May 11, 2008 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the The formation of schools. |
| Message | How about this... we will open Secular Humanist schools and have them running for 4 years after this bill passes. If parents are wild about the idea then we will keep them running. If they hate the idea or if not many parents wish to send their kids, we will close the schools down or turn them into charter schools. |
| Date | 13:43:03, May 11, 2008 CET | From | Archon Revolutionary Militia | To | Debating the The formation of schools. |
| Message | "Sure. I guarantee you those schools won't close down in the next four years." -Judy Gottlos, Head Archon of the ARM |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 267 | ||||
| no | Total Seats: 0 | ||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 133 |
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