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Bill: Veterans need some relief
Details
Submitted by[?]: The Liberal Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: February 2578
Description[?]:
It seems as the war is going to end very soon. Our veterans are going to return home. We would like them to have a small present for their bravery and patritism.
1) All veterans of the Lodamun-Likatonia will receive a 100 LOD for defending our nation with bravery and courage.
2) The veterans will have the option of receiving payment in cash or savings bond.
3) If the savings bond is selected it will have a fixed rate of 1% per year. They may be cashed only after one year of being issued.
4) Only 2 billion LOD will be paid in cash in a first come first serve basis. After this amount no longer meets the demand,only savings bonds will be given. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 01:07:28, May 13, 2008 CET |
From | Lodamun Libertarian Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | This would cost 1 billion for the currently serving army personnel at the boarder, and then we have to add the cost of previous current navy and airforce personnel (the marines havent really done anything, but if you want to include those too then add them to the cost) in addition to veterans from every branch (most people dont fight a entire 10+ year war, most people retire and get replaced at some point).
This could end up being really expensive |
| Date | 01:25:36, May 13, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | Most people will probably choose the savings bonds. But let's say that they all choose cash. The maximun it may cost will be 2 billion. First, they deserve it and we have the money. Second, that money will come back to us as luxury taxes and it will put money in the economy. |
| Date | 01:36:25, May 13, 2008 CET |
From | Lodamun Libertarian Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | Well the saving bonds will cost us more than if they just pick cash, since the saving bonds gives them a rate.
But how can you say that it will cost a maximum of 2 billion? Because of the length of this war I am sure that the averge army soldier has been replaced atleast 2-3 if not even 4 times. that alone would crush the 2 billion estimate.
Also the luxury tax only applies to luxury items, if they dont buy luxury we wont get the money back, and even if they buy luxury only 18% (although I do oppose the luxury tax and would rather see the privat economy keep all those money) |
| Date | 01:40:51, May 13, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | Does the Defense Minister have an exact number of how many soldiers served in the war?
We can also make it half cash half bonds. Those who want cash will get it in a first come first serve method. When the cash we designate runs out we will only give away bonds. Bonds will be cashed one year after they are issued. Not everyone will cash it at the same time. It will cost more but it will be less of a demand for cash at any given time. |
| Date | 16:29:40, May 13, 2008 CET |
From | Lodamun Libertarian Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | Although the cash demand might be less at any given time the total bill would be higher the more people get bonds.
As for how many has served I am just going to have to luck on whats the avereage active duty tour in a war zone is in the real world, and then we would probarbly be a bit higher than that since its our nation being invaded. Ill bring some estimates hopefully tommorow if I have the time |
| Date | 20:05:37, May 13, 2008 CET |
From | Lodamun Libertarian Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | yeah but the war has lasted around 25 years, so if every group serves 2 years of active duty on average then thats 13 groups. Seeing as we have keept a constant army between 1 and 1.2 million soldiers that would be a minimum of 13 billion LOD for the army alone |
| Date | 23:37:47, May 13, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | The army soldiers would at least serve four or five times. That is their job. The draftees is something different, I don't know how it works. |
| Date | 23:55:12, May 13, 2008 CET |
From | Lodamun Libertarian Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | well age is a factor, and just because they volunteered for the army doesnt mean they volunteered for that long. A standard enlistment last 1-2 years, not 8-10 |
| Date | 00:00:21, May 14, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | Usually those who enlist stay for 4 or 5 years. But I was actually talkin about soldiers, whose carrer is the military. Maybe if we reduce the gift we may be able to work something out. I do think our veteans deserve something in return for their bravery and courage. |
| Date | 00:08:05, May 14, 2008 CET |
From | Lodamun Libertarian Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | Well we could make a special medal for everyone who fought in the war. That would give them something back. Also career soldiers are officers, not grunts |
| Date | 00:26:21, May 14, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | We have to make sure that all the veterans' hospitals are working properly and that they have all the resources necessary. We should also aid them in finding jobs. We should set up a temporary agency to deal with that. What name should we give to the medal? |
| Date | 00:38:17, May 14, 2008 CET |
From | Lodamun Libertarian Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | I think Likatonian war medal is good enough. As for veterans hospitals offcourse they will get medical treatment they deserve, and yeah I guess we could work something out on finding jobs for ex military personnel when they enter the civilian life |
| Date | 06:15:07, May 14, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | Our veterans deserve this but I don't know if you read what we agreed on: A medal and sometype of agency to ensure the veterans get a job. |
| Date | 06:19:44, May 14, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | Don't you want to see this bill killed? Besides I can change this bill whenever I want, it is my bill, right? It is obvious you don't care about our veterans. |
| Date | 07:27:24, May 14, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | You can vote no if you want to. The only vote I can predict out of eceryone's is yours. Let me guess you will vote no like always. |
| Date | 21:40:02, May 14, 2008 CET |
From | United Republics Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | You can vote no if you want to. The only vote I can predict out of eceryone's is yours. Let me guess you will vote no like always. It is obvious you don't care about our veterans, LLP. |
| Date | 21:49:22, May 14, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | I don't appreciate people copying my words and trying to make them look like something else. They were different statements. DO NOT try to spin my words because you will see the extent of my rage. |
| Date | 00:18:38, May 15, 2008 CET |
From | Lodamun Libertarian Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | I do care about the veterans. I am all for rewarding them a medal, offering them the best medical help avalible, and help them to get work when they are finished with there military service. I do oppose giving away money when there is no cost estimate put on this, and when the amount of money we are giving away is this much.
And you vote the same as me on alot of issues URP, so the "Let me guess you will vote no like always" comment is a bit misplaced coming from you |
| Date | 00:32:31, May 15, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | Actually that was my comment on another debate referring to URP, they just added the "you don't care about it." I don't know if it was done on purpose to create a feud between you and me but I can only say it is a bad joke and shouldn't be done. |
| Date | 02:01:45, May 17, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Veterans need some relief | | Message | I have reduced the amount to 100 LOD and only 2 billion in cash will be given. After that it will be savings bonds at a 1% rate per year. |
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| Vote |
Seats |
| yes | Total Seats: 38 |
| no | Total Seats: 67 |
| abstain | Total Seats: 45 |
| Random fact: In cases where players introduce RP laws to a nation and then leave, Moderation reserves the discretion to declare the RP laws void if they appear to have fallen into disuse. In particular, please bear in mind that a player who is inexperienced with Particracy role-play and has joined a nation as the only party there should not generally be expected to abide by RP laws implemented by previous players who have been and left. |
| Random quote: "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, from those who are cold and are not clothed. The world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children." - Dwight D. Eisenhower |