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Bill: Hutori Withdrawal (2579)
Details
Submitted by[?]: Normand Pluralist Party
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: April 2580
Description[?]:
| The Socialists have created a massive diplomatic crisis with Hutori. They have multiple nuclear weapons trained on Sekowo at the moment, and the situation is fragile. We propose therefore an immediate withdrawal of all Sekowan military forces from Hutori, to send a clear message that we do not support the use of nuclear force. We also propose that this withdrawal accompany a formal apology for the illegal use of nuclear force against the affected parties. It is critical that we send a swift message to the people of Hutori that we do not consider this acceptable, and our withdrawal may be seen as some sort of restitution, however small. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 15:10:24, May 21, 2008 CET | From |  帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | 1. Quit blaming the whole party fro one individual. 2. Mordusia is already looking for any subs to destroy the Unionist WMD's. 3. We are int he middle of a war, and these reasons are shaky at best and treasonous at worst. |
| Date | 15:15:23, May 21, 2008 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | Plus, there is no way there few missiles could hit us. We have spent a decades and billions of dollars creating and perfecting our Missile Defence Shield, so unless they fire hundred of missiles or more simultaneously (impossible since they only have two subs) we are completely safe from any of their missiles. |
| Date | 15:51:48, May 21, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | We prefer not to tempt fate. If we can encourage peace, then we should. Zionism is not part of our philosophy, (that is, the elimination of others in our attempt to create a Utopia) but we should strive to create a Zion, a land of peace, and to accomplish that, we believe the Normands are right. We should not provoke war. We should promote peace. Now, if there is injustice, we should strive against it, but in this case, we have used what we believe to be unjust methods. Hence, we should retire the struggle until we can find ourselves back upon the moral high ground, to promote goodness and peace, and prevent these massacres from repeating. Also, I wouldn't doubt the Hutori intelligence systems. We could find ourselves with a hole in our missile system, conveniently timed with a missile on our doorstep. We should always give every thought to the safety of our citizens, and a wholesale reliance, even on our own ingenuity, is shaky, at best. |
| Date | 15:57:23, May 21, 2008 CET | From | Sekowan Communist Party | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | We offer our apologies for the Communists in Hutori that we must abandon their cause. |
| Date | 16:00:39, May 21, 2008 CET | From |  Imperial Pluralism Party | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | That's not what the ISP representative said to the international community: "By the way, since Sekowo has had a missile defence system for nearly a century, only half of missiles would be able to get through if launched en masse, though, like every system there are ways you could get around it to some degree." Interesting. Let's say that they did launch the missiles "en masse" and that one managed to get through. We could see millions of Sekowans dead in an instant, an immediate economic collapse, terror, and panic. Do we want to wait for that horrible outcome? We all know that victory in Hutori will only come through Confederate electoral victory. They still do not control the cabinet, nor are they even close to modifying the constitution and abolishing monarchy. However, we shall abstain in this current bill. Although our present dilemma is the result of the ISP's gross incompetence, we feel that standing down and surrendering to any enemy with nuclear warheads is a sign of weakness to the international community. Yes, we are playing with fire, and yes, we have been forced by Kayabuki to jeopardize the lives of millions of Sekowans, but The Unionists know that any nuclear attack on Sekowan soil would result in a massive counter-attack that would all but destroy that horrible nation; their primary reason for threatening us with WMDs is to prevent the future use of such weapons in the war. We may change our opinions if we hear convincing arguments. |
| Date | 16:03:18, May 21, 2008 CET | From | Imperial Pluralism Party | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | Oh, well there were the convincing arguments. We will only vote no, however, if someone can explain how we will deal with the Unionist forces in Dovani and weakening of Dovani sovereignty that may result from withdrawing from the war. |
| Date | 16:04:25, May 21, 2008 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | OOC: I was saying it for future reference, it's always good to have said things previously, so that people can't use no past reference against you. |
| Date | 00:40:08, May 22, 2008 CET | From | Democratic Socialist Union | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | The Union's bark is larger than its bite. Not even they are stupid enough to launch nuclear weapons, they'd know it'd be their demise. Having said that, a withdrawal of troops from Sekowo would only demonstrate to them that if you are threatened enough, you back down. |
| Date | 00:44:03, May 22, 2008 CET | From | Democratic Socialist Union | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | And also, Hutori does not have sufficient military budget to both sustain a standing army AND develop long range nuclear missiles. |
| Date | 13:56:35, May 22, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | We have a responsibility to our people first. First and foremost, we are the government of Sekowo, not Hutori. This civil war is not a simple choice of right vs. wrong, and yet, due to some of our actions, we cannot help but feel that we have done wrong. This wrongdoing has no fault with the Union or yourselves. We wish to accept responsibility for our actions, and this seems the best way to do so. |
| Date | 14:05:11, May 22, 2008 CET | From | Democratic Socialist Union | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | Well, thank you for your betrayal. We'll keep this in mind for future references. |
| Date | 14:13:39, May 22, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | Betrayal? You have no rights to our military, and the moment you think you do, you become our enemies. The fact that your ideology was anathema to this party's was ignored, but apparently it shouldn't be. We laud the egalitarian nature of removing monarchies, but we cannot support it at the cost of our own morality. There is right and wrong, much as you might like to destroy those ideas, and these ideas are the basis for our withdrawal. Not betrayal. |
| Date | 17:20:25, May 22, 2008 CET | From | Democratic Socialist Union | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | So basically you would rather leave a regime with a history of oppression and fascism with nuclear, chemical and biological weapons than stick around a few years longer until it's finished? Sounds like betrayal to me. |
| Date | 19:22:10, May 22, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | Rather than end the world in nuclear holocaust? Yes. Our responsibility is first and foremost to Sekowo, not to communism, fascism, monarchy, or democracy. We see no reason to endanger our innocent citizens by remaining. |
| Date | 19:39:51, May 22, 2008 CET | From | Democratic Socialist Union | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | That may be so, but you've made an enemy out of the Unionist government, a government which owns nuclear weapons. If we still lose this civil war (however unlikely), they WILL hold a grudge against you. Is that so much better for Sekowo? |
| Date | 20:32:16, May 22, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | Well, at this point, it appears we're damned if we do, damned if we don't. We'll state again that this cannot be a betrayal, because, simply put. "Betrayal: n. To give aid or information to an enemy of;" We are not aiding the Unionists. If you think that you have a right to our military, then again, we put forth that you are not Sekowan, and not our people. |
| Date | 20:44:35, May 22, 2008 CET | From | Democratic Socialist Union | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | Can't you atleast keep a token force of 50,000 or so in Hutori? |
| Date | 22:02:25, May 22, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | Unless the DSP states otherwise, the PSA remain. If you wish to appeal, contact one of the parties officially. |
| Date | 22:03:01, May 22, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | OOC: In other words, I don't think they're listening to this particular debate. |
| Date | 22:05:35, May 22, 2008 CET | From | Democratic Socialist Union | To | Debating the Hutori Withdrawal (2579) |
| Message | PSA? |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 319 | ||||
| no | Total Seats: 205 | ||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 67 |
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