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Bill: Military Appointments

Details

Submitted by[?]: The Liberal Party

Status[?]: passed

Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.

Voting deadline: September 2580

Description[?]:

Under the powers given to me by the Constitution as Commander in Chief, I hereby nominate the following officers of the Armed Forces to the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

President Andrew Adams



Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff: General Maxwen Penway

Vice-Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff: Admiral of the Fleet Scrytan Abry

Army Chief of Staff: General Govant Range Warber

Army Vice-Chief of Staff: Lieutenant General Ella Roweor Sille (First Woman Appointed to the Joint Chiefs of Staff)

Airforce Chief of Staff: General of the Airforce Stelem Aglay

Airforce Vice-Chief of Staff: General of the Airforce Luca Orly

Chief of Naval Operations: Admiral of the Fleet Marh Rins

Vice-Chief of Naval Operations: Admiral of the Fleet Bedeth Derken

Commandant of the Marine Strike Force: General Ristan Karvi

Vice-Commandant of the Marine Strike Force: General Aberry Dour

Proposals

Debate

These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:

Date13:43:51, May 22, 2008 CET
FromLodamun Libertarian Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
MessageWell since the war is over the armed forces are no longer allowed to go beyond 4 star generals. But has something serisous happened in the military command since you see the need to replace every single commander?

Date19:26:39, May 22, 2008 CET
FromThe Liberal Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
MessageGeneral refers to a four-star General. It has been more than 10 years with the same military commanders, it is time for a change.

Date19:27:42, May 22, 2008 CET
FromThe Liberal Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
MessageThey are not in any way being demoted. They will remain being Generals or Admirals.

Date20:41:34, May 22, 2008 CET
FromThe Liberal Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
MessageJust so everyone knows, the current Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is going to retain his current grade as a five-star General. Five-Star Generals are active in the military even after they retire, meaning that they will always be a five-star General and can mange the Army even after they retire, not likely to happen but in theory it can.

Date20:43:04, May 22, 2008 CET
FromThe Liberal Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
MessageThe current Army Chief of Staff is under the same circumstances stated above.

Date21:07:44, May 22, 2008 CET
FromLodamun Libertarian Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
Message4 stars are generals, all generals of the army, admirals of the navy, and generals of the airforce are 5 star generals, a rank only given in war times, and since 5 years is a unusally long period of time to hold a 5 star rank in peace times (remeber they must have spent along time in the military to reach 4 star, and the fifth means they will have had to have 4 stars for a bit. So I think you should change all 5 star ranks to 4 stars, and also the vice-chief of the marines has been a 3 star general, since the marines are not that big compared to the other branches of our armed force.

But yeah I agree its times for a change. And usally the persons being removed from office eather gets promoted or retire, So I guess you can consider all retired. And all 4 and 5 star will retain there rank, and as you said all 5 star generalscan be recalled to lead, since the 5 star rank is a active duty rank, meaning that officialy they are on duty for as long as they hold the rank, although not given any commands, so in practical terms they are retired.


Date21:24:36, May 22, 2008 CET
FromThe Liberal Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
MessageDo you mean demote all the 5 stars generals?

All the Generals in this proposal are 4 stars Generals.

I don't know why the Vice-Chief of the marines I nominated isn't a Lieutenant General.
OOC: I may be deleted the Lieutenant part when I was writting the name.
But it shouldn't be a problem anyways.

If we ever need the 5 stars Generals, if we are at war or something, they will be called upon.

Date21:34:17, May 22, 2008 CET
FromLodamun Libertarian Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
MessageNot all the generals in this proposel are 4 stars:
Admiral of the Fleet Scrytan Abry
General of the Airforce Stelem Aglay
General of the Airforce Luca Orly
Admiral of the Fleet Marh Rins
Admiral of the Fleet Bedeth Derken
Both admiral of the fleet and general of the airforce are 5 star ranks. general and admiral are the 4 star ranks.
Also, why is the army vice-chief of staff a Lieutenant general? That position should be a 4 star general considering how big the army is

Date21:44:25, May 22, 2008 CET
FromThe Liberal Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
MessageI may have made a mistake when writing but I am telling you, they are 4 star Generals. Don't block this because of a typo. For the record the one you mentioned are four star Generals or Admirals.

OOC: I took the same bill you had and change the names and made a few changes, I forgot those.

There are two reason as to why it is a 3-star General:

1- She is the first woman to be nominated to the Joint Chiefs
2- She is the best candidate for the position.

If it is a problem, she can be promoted at a later date.

Date22:08:26, May 22, 2008 CET
FromLodamun Libertarian Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
MessageI got no problems with a female member of the joint chiefs (although it shouldnt be focused on the fact that she is a women, gender shouldnt even be mentioned at all) the reason a army vice-chief of staff cant be a 3 star general is the fact that since the army vice-chief is the second highest rank in the army it needs to be manned by a person with atleast a equal rank as the highest army officer outside of the join chiefts.

And since there are atleast four (probarbly more) 4 star army general commands outside of the joint chiefs (the 4 different standing army groups) the person holding the office of army vice-chief needs to be atleast a 4 star general. A 3 star general cant command a 4 star general. Thats why the all joint chiefs with the exeption of the marine vice-chief (because there is only 3 star or lower marine commands outside the joint chiefs because of its small size) needs to be a 4 star general in times of peace (and in war time the chief and vice chief of joint staffs, followed by the commander of the branch which will recive 5 star operational commands are promoted first)

Date22:10:39, May 22, 2008 CET
FromLodamun Libertarian Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
MessageTherfore a 4 star general needs to get that job (although you can promote her to a 4 star and take over the command of the 4 star general moving up to vice-chief, then take over for that vice-chief in a year or two (can blame it on anything from scandals to death)

Date22:17:33, May 22, 2008 CET
FromLodamun Libertarian Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
MessageI will support this appoitment if you just fix the typos and name a 4 star general as you nominee to the army vice-chief post

Date22:29:17, May 22, 2008 CET
FromThe Liberal Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
MessageI can't fix the typos now but if this is passed I will make it clear in another bill.

Just because she is a 3-star General it doesn't mean she will not be able to command a 4 star General should she get the post of vice-chief. I can simply promote her after she gets the nomination. I don't have to go through Parliament to do so. It will be easy to do.

Date22:40:46, May 22, 2008 CET
FromLodamun Libertarian Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
MessageA 4 star general needs to be nominated, not a 3 star general. Just renominate her in 1 or 2 years when she actually is a 4 star general, in the meantime nominate someone who is. And I do not accept that a 3 star general would be better suited than a 4 star general, because a 4 star general has more experience than a 3 star general, and hold a bigger command and therefore have better training at administrating big forces than a 3 star general.

But I would like to add that I think nominating someone just so they would be the first women on the joint chief is wrong, since its sexist to promote someone on gender

Date00:04:44, May 23, 2008 CET
FromThe Liberal Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
MessageI gave two reasons, one she is woman, second she is the best suited for the job. It is time for a woman to have a high position in our military, especally when she is the most capable person for the job.

Date00:05:47, May 23, 2008 CET
FromThe Liberal Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
MessageWhen the nomination was put up, she was and still is considered the most qualified prson for the job.

Date09:06:50, May 23, 2008 CET
FromLodamun Libertarian Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
MessageIts discrimination to promote someone based on gender alone. I will not accept a nomination in which gender is used as a argument for the nomination. Also if she was the most qualified she would have had 4 stars by now

Date19:18:00, May 23, 2008 CET
FromThe Liberal Party
ToDebating the Military Appointments
MessageUnfortunately it passed.

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Voting

Vote Seats
yes
    

Total Seats: 77

no
  

Total Seats: 52

abstain
 

Total Seats: 21


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