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Bill: Cults are Among Us-01_CZP
Details
Submitted by[?]: Am Echad, Pays Libre
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: July 2585
Description[?]:
| We ahave seen the weird actions of the cult, "Glorious Gathering of Our Lord Ishmael", this is no more that a cult, a horrible movent that takes the money and lives of fools. It clearly has defied the anti-cult legislation put in place! We must act. We want a probe on the leader, "Ishmael" and his whole cult. We must defeat this Cult! |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 01:15:02, May 28, 2008 CET | From | Jewish Mothers' Union | To | Debating the Cults are Among Us-01_CZP |
| Message | We must be cautious of launching any intolerant, over-reaction. However, I would like to take the opportunity here of inviting Lord Ishmael to explain in more detail what the nature of his religious movement is. Melanie Koffenbaum (Minister of Foreign Affairs & Leader of the JMU) |
| Date | 01:32:34, May 28, 2008 CET | From | Revolutionary Gathering of Beiteynu | To | Debating the Cults are Among Us-01_CZP |
| Message | Our Lord denies the title of "cult" placed upon the movement. He would gladly speak in more detail once the people have spoken in the upcoming election. However, the anti-cult legislation has never been put before Our Lord. |
| Date | 03:21:47, May 28, 2008 CET | From | Am Echad, Pays Libre | To | Debating the Cults are Among Us-01_CZP |
| Message | No, what we are doing is just researching and checking it out. |
| Date | 03:43:42, May 28, 2008 CET | From | Revolutionary Gathering of Beiteynu | To | Debating the Cults are Among Us-01_CZP |
| Message | It is Our Lord's fear that your research may be falsified and distorted. Those who search for a treasure in the sand, may find it easier to say they lost it than to say they found nothing. |
| Date | 12:06:55, May 28, 2008 CET | From | HaLeumit Tikvah | To | Debating the Cults are Among Us-01_CZP |
| Message | http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=139231 "As per anti-cult legislation, members of the Glorious Gathering of Ishmael would be unable to hold citizenship or serve in the armed forces, as it is not currently a recognised religion. This would also bar members from having seats in the Knesset, as (OOC: I think?) citizenship is required to do so. We ask for more details on the nature of this religious group from the Glorious Gathering of Ishmael, and would support a probe, so that Knesset members can make an informed decision on whether to define it as a cult or recognised religion." -Rosh HaMemshala Giora Metzger |
| Date | 16:04:44, May 28, 2008 CET | From | Jewish Mothers' Union | To | Debating the Cults are Among Us-01_CZP |
| Message | The election has now been held, and it is clear that, for good or ill, the Lord Ishmael party has achieved a significant following in our nation. I hope they will now take the opportunity to clarify what the nature of their movement is, in particular with regards to the following points: - What is their attitude towards Lord Ishmael? Is he some kind of prophet or God-figure, or a mainstream spiritual leader? - What kind of spiritual movement are they? Do they go to regular worship services or have specific holy days? What religious practices do they follow? What is the hierarchy of the movement? - What is their attitude towards the Jewish faith and the role of Judaism in Beitenyu? Do they aim to convert Jews away from Judaism? Are they tolerant of Judaism and other faiths? - What does Lord Ishmael expect of his followers? Are they obligated to do things like donate money or work for him for nothing? Are they obligated to vote for his party at elections? - Why does a spiritual/religious movement have a need for a distinct political party in Beitenyu? - How much are Lord Ishmael's followers expected to live separately from the rest of Beitenyuenese society? Do they, for example, live in separate communities/communes and aim to build separate schools? I hope the Lord Ishmael party will be able to cast some light on these questions, and that any doubts which have been held about them can be lifted. Melanie Koffenbaum (Minister of Foreign Affairs & Leader of the JMU) |
| Date | 16:37:41, May 28, 2008 CET | From | Revolutionary Gathering of Beiteynu | To | Debating the Cults are Among Us-01_CZP |
| Message | We will answer these questions now: - Our Lord Ishmael is a manifestation of the divine. He does not, however, represent a God-figure to use, he is more like a prophet. Just as a reflection of a man in water would not be considered a man, so is Our Lord a manifestation of the Divine, but not the divine itself. -Our religious schedule is much more improvisational. We worship in large gatherings, generally outdoors. These generally consist of talks focusing on morality. Then there is a time when all who have a question may come and pose they're question to Our Lord, who will answer in the form of a short aphorism. Then the service will end with a blessing. However, if Our Lord is not present, no one is permitted to hold any sort of event unless Our Lord has issued a Mandate of Priesthood, allowing them to gather without him. This means that no one is to hold services unless they know what they're talking about. We do not have any Holy Days as such, they are more like "windows of oppurtunity" that allows a more personal experience. We value the importance of the individual as part of the group. And we have very little hierarchy. There is Our Lord, then there are his Servants, then there are the believers. The Servants are his full-time "staff". -We do not actively seek to turn Jews away from Judaism. However, will turn no one away. It is Our Lord's prerogative to only come to those who call out for him. Therefore, we do not advocate any sort of active proselytization. -Our Lord places no obligations upon his followers save what they ask. He proscribes no laws and lays out no commandments, however if a person asks what they can do to become closer to him he will lay out tasks. Only what is called upon is what is given. And no one is obligated to vote for his party, it is merely a party that is closest to their morals. -It is important for us to have a party in Beiteynu because as a strongly religious state it would be easy for us to be targeted as a "cult". There is strength in numbers and we want none of our members to experience persecution. Our Lord also says that we should work to have control over what has control over us. That is politics. This is why our Legislative members are largely unpaid volunteers. It is an exercise in spiritual growth. -Our Lord rejects all sense of monastic life. The best way to live in the world is to live in the world. However, there are a few communal "getaways" that offer retreats for everyone, not just members of our faith. We advocate peace, and we advocate hope for the future. If we are a "destructive cult", we are very very bad at it. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes |
Total Seats: 159 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 40 | |||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 41 |
| Random fact: You can inactivate yourself on your User Page. You will then lose all your seats but your party account won't be deleted, and your party's Visibility ratings will not diminish. Reactivation can be requested in the "Reactivation Requests" thread in the Game Moderation section of the Particracy Forum. |
| Random quote: "Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others." - Ambrose Bierce |