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Bill: Final Request
Details
Submitted by[?]: The Liberal Party
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: December 2587
Description[?]:
This will constitute the final request to the signatories of the Three Nation Territorial and Economic Alliance:
1- Retreat all the military presence from the zone. It violates the neutrality of international waters.
2- Retreat all military presence from Lodamun's water. The zone outlined by the treaty violates Lodamun's territory by 3.58 nautical miles, as measured by our Navy. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 04:49:53, June 04, 2008 CET |
From |  Lutherans of Keymon | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | We will move out all of Keymon's military from Lodamun waters and international waters. The military will step aside for the sake of international cooperation.
--Dick Jorsett VI
Foreign Minister of Keymon |
| Date | 05:12:59, June 04, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | Thank you for your cooperation. I appreciate it.
Rich Reynolds
Minister of Foreign Affairs |
| Date | 05:25:55, June 04, 2008 CET |
From | United Republics Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | Then surely Keymon must withdraw from this treaty!
These forces have a right to patrol these waters, they simply do not have some of the other powers they granted to themselves. Based on this language we must vote no. Lodamun does not have a place to dictate who can patrol international waters. |
| Date | 05:41:55, June 04, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | We are not dictating anything. They violated our national territory and international waters' neutrality. |
| Date | 05:51:05, June 04, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | Keymon did a very good diplomatic move and they should be congratulated for it. They don't war and we don't either. |
| Date | 07:21:13, June 04, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | We are not keeping them from international water, we are telling them to remove the military ships that are preventing our ships from going through. |
| Date | 08:28:57, June 04, 2008 CET |
From | United Republics Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | Your bill specifically states "Retreat all the military presence from the zone."
Please word bills carefully, and be aware of what's in your own bills. What right do we have to demand these nations to remove their ships from international waters? |
| Date | 09:11:02, June 04, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | I won't debate with you because it is worthless. Obviously, Keymon understood the wording of this bill. |
| Date | 17:48:19, June 04, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | It enters 3.58 nautical miles into our territory, measured by our Navy. Even if that is not the case, which it is, you have no right to block international waters in any way for any reason. |
| Date | 17:48:48, June 04, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | I hope Likatonia understands but we don't trust their word in any way. You may know why. |
| Date | 20:05:03, June 04, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | The map has been examined and the territory has been measured by the Navy and it violates 3.58 nautical miles. I suggest you respecting the findings by the Navy. If you need a loop, you can borrow one from me. |
| Date | 21:57:46, June 04, 2008 CET |
From | Hobrazian Peoples Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | The Hobrazian and keymon navy has also investigated this prior to the initiation process of the TNC and they found that there is absolutely no violation of any national waters at all.
If you can show proves of such a violation, we will of course move our sea zone border backwards, but we will not stop patrolling and controlling the naval area, though we are not interested in escalating anything, we advice the Lodamun nation to ratify our treaty and get acces to the Sea Zone with peacefull meassures in a democratic way. Together we will stop international crime, piracy and terrorism. |
| Date | 00:44:46, June 05, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | Your methods are barbaric and illegal. No one controls international waters.
The United Republics of Lodamun Navy has conducted the investigation long ago and it was informed that a violation of 3.58 nautical miles has occured. We will go by OUR Navy, not yours. I recommend your country to back off, Keymon already did in the spirit of cooperation, you should do the same. And we will never put a treaty such as that one up for ratification. If you keep insisting and not seen the clear violation of international law, we will have no choice but to do it by force. We have been extremely patient with your country and we have tried diplomacy at all times. Diplomacy is not one-sided and it seems that in this case it is.
Rich Reynolds
Minister of Foreign Affairs |
| Date | 07:10:11, June 05, 2008 CET |
From | United Republics Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | HPP said it would not encroach on our waters what's your problem? We should be negotiating free access for Lodamese vessels in the disputed zone. If the treaty members allow Lodamese vessels to travel freely through the zone with no restrictions, there is no problem. |
| Date | 10:47:04, June 05, 2008 CET |
From | Hobrazian Peoples Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | As the treaty states, we disagree on the dealings made by the Law of the Sea. We claim this area for our protection as we have seen how previous situations lead to harming our nations due to our lack of naval control. This based on history of international politics, international crime, piracy and terrorism. Therefore this treaty is a way of peacefully avoiding such things, but backed with force should nations or criminals and terrorists, not apply.
We advice that those who wish to enter out zone (whereever it does not interfere with Lodamese waters) ratify our treaty and join our struggle against piracy and terrorism. We wish no violence, but must state, that we have claimed this Sea Zone for our nations protection in any matters and thus will not hesitate to control it. We would like to invite the Lodamese Parliament to further discuss this treaty, but would advice that they do it in a bill aimed at ratifying the TNC treaty. That way we can have it either rejected or ratified.
In the end we very much would like to have Lodamun in this treaty and we would be willing to arrange a mutual agreement of lower fees and initiation costs as well as maybe some kind of part in the patrolling of the zone. We also see this as a way of initiating peacefull talks with Likatonia to strengthen your relationship.
We at least look forward to further discuss this issue with you and welcome your interest in our treaty. |
| Date | 22:49:30, June 05, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | We are ratifiers of the Law of the Sea and disgreement with it doesn't give anyone the right to "control" international waters. If we ratify your treaty (which I doubt it), we will be violating another treaty and that's unacceptable.
One thing to be made very, very clear: Lodamun will NEVER enter in any kind of conversations with Likatonia.
To URRA:
I don't care what they say, I want actions not words (I know you don't know that). Have yu been following this debate or are you lost already. We are not world negotiators, we are negotiating for our own interest but that on goes along the interest of our allies. |
| Date | 23:37:00, June 05, 2008 CET |
From | Lodamun Libertarian Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | We still have a diplomatic embargo on Likatonia, so talking with them is out of the question for the moment.
As for the treaty itself I oppose it since international waters belong to no one, so no one can claim juristiction there |
| Date | 12:03:32, June 06, 2008 CET |
From | Lodamun Libertarian Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | I think its to agressive, and I also dont really trust your claims of it violating our naval boarders, I think that should be measured by someone independent from all this. |
| Date | 15:52:40, June 06, 2008 CET |
From | Hobrazian Peoples Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | Please get control of your own nation before you start a war then. Your commando discussion on who controls what in this will certainly have confused your military and we believe that first when that is settled you can start a real discussion on military deployment. |
| Date | 22:57:38, June 06, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | The Head of State, the Head of Government, The Vice-President (yes, we do have one), the Minister of Defense, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff (and yes, we do have one too) manage the military. Our military knows who their leaders are and they are very organized.
Who said anything about starting a war? That came out of you.
OOC: If you want to start a war, I will be more than glad, but currently I can't. Give me a couple of days at the least. We can keep RPing the conflict in the meantime. |
| Date | 22:58:33, June 06, 2008 CET |
From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | LLP, how can you say you can't trust our Navy? They are OUR people. |
| Date | 15:41:27, June 07, 2008 CET |
From | Hobrazian Peoples Party | To | Debating the Final Request | | Message | OOC: Actually i have exams on the 13th. so in a war i would be very unparticipating, then it should primarily be with the Likatonians, but lets look in to that in some days then. |
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| Vote |
Seats |
| yes | Total Seats: 61 |
| no | Total Seats: 48 |
| abstain | Total Seats: 41 |
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http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4362 |
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Likaton Coalition of the Willing