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Bill: Condemnation of the Present Cabinet
Details
Submitted by[?]: Liberal Party of Hobrazia
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: June 2590
Description[?]:
| A resolution to condemn the present cabinet. Recognized; the present cabinet does not represent a majority of Hobrazian voters. Recognized; that in time of international crisis, parties currently in cabinet without a political mandate from the voters have blocked an effort to unite Hobrazia's political parties. This Imperial Chamber condemns the present cabinet, and requests that in the interest of democracy, those parties presently in cabinet dissolve government and accept a legitimate cabinet supported by a democratic mandate. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 02:08:45, June 08, 2008 CET | From |  First Party Of Hobrazia | To | Debating the Condemnation of the Present Cabinet |
| Message | We as members of the government should like to state that at present our nation is not at war and that our troops are all within Hobrazia. We are not qwuite sure what the liberals are referring to. HBC has not reported anything of this sort. We also take offence to being called undemocratic. Of course this is a democracy and yet again the people have chosen the leader of the FPoH to act as Emperor Elect. In the chamber the liberals may be the largest party but that does not always mean that you should be in government. As we have stated we were the largest party for a substanial time without being in government. We also hold internal ballots which is probably the most democratic thing to do. In this democracy you may be in government if you can forge a coalition with the most votes, as yet no other coalition has been forged to replace the current government that is satisfactory to all concerned. I am concered that despite your name and claim to be liberal you are desperate for power and are using all means to seek it. We are willing to work with you as we share a great deal in common, but we will not a the throw of a hat split from our long term friends and allies that we have worked with for decades. |
| Date | 08:53:33, June 08, 2008 CET | From | Conservative Nationalist Party | To | Debating the Condemnation of the Present Cabinet |
| Message | The CNP expresses its concern for the apparant motives of both the Liberals and the First Party. We disagree with the Liberals' assertion that the larger parties automatically deserve control over the functioning of the government. The CNP does not believe that coalitions should be ruthlessly formed for the sole purpose of defeating one's political adversaries. We also believe that the current governing coalition has valuable experience that the younger parties lack. However, we must also disagree with the statements made by the First Party. We find their sense of entitlement due to seniority to be somewhat disturbing, and indeed undemocratic in nature. They seem to believe that the current cabinent coalition is satisfactory. We disagree. We have a situation where a minority controls the government while the majority can only condemn the situation as the First Party has the power to thwart any effort at amending the problem. The last thing Hobrazia needs right now is division. The CNP therefore proposes a discussion for a new coalition government. Whether it occurs on our message boards or on our forums does not matter, but we believe that this is necessary to preserve unity in our nation. |
| Date | 09:33:23, June 08, 2008 CET | From | People's Liberation Front of Hobrazia | To | Debating the Condemnation of the Present Cabinet |
| Message | We do support a new cabinet but would not support the resolution as it stands. |
| Date | 20:53:10, June 08, 2008 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hobrazia | To | Debating the Condemnation of the Present Cabinet |
| Message | We have presented two cabinets: one on ideological grounds which was vetoed because of the "current international situation" and one on a unity basis which was vetoed without a reason. We have made two attempts at forming coalitions that represent the majority of Hobrazia and both have failed. Let us clarify one thing. We are NOT desperate for power. Our interest is in forming a government with a democratic mandate, not in seeing ourselves in government (although we would obviously be delighted to see that). We have NEVER said that the largest party should be included in government just for the sake of including us. If a government could be formed without the First Party or the Liberals, we would be alright with that (such a government can not exist). Our quarrel is with an undemocratic government, and we will continue to protest that. To address the CNP's concerns in particular: we have never said larger parties should automatically be included in government, and we have recognized that parties presently in government possess valuable experience, that's why we have included parties in government in both of our cabinet proposals. The CNP and the Liberals have no disagreement on this issue. |
| Date | 23:23:08, June 08, 2008 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the Condemnation of the Present Cabinet |
| Message | To be truly pedantic there is no law which stipulates that a cabinet coalition requires to have a majority in order to carry out its duties merely that a cabinet requires a majority in order to be formed so, as members of the Imperial Chamber all of whom have been elected to their positions by the people, to stipulate that the government does not have a mandate to govern would be not entirely accurate. The current government has operated, and continues to do so as much, in the interests of this nation, as we are sure our colleagues in the LPoH accept. However there are some...difficulties in forming workable coalitions between some members of this Chamber. Whilst we are confident that any cabinet formed at a date following this discussion, or even continuing with the cabinet in question, that any such cabinet would operate with the interests of this nation at its heart, as believed by all constituents of this Chamber, the difficulty is whether, at present, any new cabinet can be formed with all the constituent members required and work together in any cabinet. The current parties within the cabinet, although having some differing views as to the future of some internal legislation have proven that they can put such differences aside when working together in the "bigger picture". Whilst the We Say So! Party is always willing to discuss changes to cabinets, and positions held within, we find resolutions such as this to be damaging to international credibility making the work of government more difficult. Perhaps rather than airing disagreements such as these in such a way it would be more prudent for the Liberals, and all constituent members of the Chamber, to discuss such difficulties internally and perhaps find common goals that would allow a unity cabinet to form. At present we have found no reasons barring the assertion that the present cabinet is undemocratic, a position which we do not accept, to make us reconsider any support of either the current or any other cabinet proposals. |
| Date | 07:23:34, June 09, 2008 CET | From | Hobrazian Peoples Party | To | Debating the Condemnation of the Present Cabinet |
| Message | We choose not to answer to this in the respect of the politicians who responsibly is in charge of our cities, counties, regions, communities and nation. We know that this war on words with the LPoH only leads to discouragement, disharmony and alienation in the hobrazian population. No good will come from our participation in such a ignorant and meaningless debate. We also as a responsible party would like to direct the Chambers attention to this: http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=198095 |
| Date | 19:21:41, June 09, 2008 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hobrazia | To | Debating the Condemnation of the Present Cabinet |
| Message | WSS!P is right that no law states that a cabinet must represent a majority of the legislature. They are wrong to imply that that means the current arrangement is democratic. The majority of this country is without representation in government, a point we have stressed for some time now and one which is now at least being addressed by the HPP's cabinet proposal. We hope that their concession that this is an issue will spur further discussion, as we're pretty sure their current proposal will not pass. |
| Date | 19:21:25, June 10, 2008 CET | From | Hobrazian Peoples Party | To | Debating the Condemnation of the Present Cabinet |
| Message | The HPP represent the whole Hobrazian nation and as such the nations population has a representative in the current Government. |
| Date | 23:07:27, June 10, 2008 CET | From | Liberal Party of Hobrazia | To | Debating the Condemnation of the Present Cabinet |
| Message | That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. You represent those voters who voted for you. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 116 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 173 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 111 |
| Random fact: In general, role-play requires the consent of all players. |
| Random quote: "Communism: liberation of the people from the burdens of liberty." - Rick Bayan |