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Bill: SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco
Details
Submitted by[?]: Sekowan Independent Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 2595
Description[?]:
| This bill is set forth to modify current law regarding the sale of alcohol and tobacco. Currently, there are no age restrictions on these substances. Studies have shown that alcohol and tobacco can limit the growth in pre-adults, and that alcohol can become an addictive substance in some cases. In pre-adults, addiction to a substance will hinder the individual's ability to become a stable, successful adult. It is for this reason that we believe alcohol and tobacco should be limited to purchase by adults only. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy towards alcoholic beverages.
Old value:: Alcoholic beverages may be purchased only from licensed sales outlets, but consumed by anyone.
Current: Alcoholic beverages may be purchased and consumed anywhere, but only by adults.
Proposed: Alcoholic beverages may be purchased only from licensed sales outlets, and can only be available to adults.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change Sale of tobacco products.
Old value:: There are certain restrictions on the sale of tobacco products but everyone is allowed to buy them.
Current: Only adults may purchase tobacco.
Proposed: There are certain restrictions on the sale of tobacco and only adults may purchase tobacco.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 05:36:58, June 20, 2008 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco |
| Message | We would prefer localization, but we would vote for this bill. |
| Date | 05:58:54, June 20, 2008 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco |
| Message | We are against age discrimination. |
| Date | 06:57:22, June 20, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco |
| Message | Would you be against age discrimination in voting? Should Sekowans start in grade school with every process of all things which pertain to adulthood? We're not saying that alcohol is part of adulthood, but it is addictive, and it should be when the citizens are of age. |
| Date | 07:14:59, June 20, 2008 CET | From | Sekowan Independent Party | To | Debating the SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco |
| Message | The age an individual is considered an adult is also something written in legislature. It would be entirely possible to lower the age an individual is considered an adult to the age of 14, however I think it can be easily agreed that few 14 year olds are capable of being the head of a household in the same manner that a 17+ year old can (as under current Sekowan Law). In that same vein, it should not be expected that a 14 year old or worse, (as it currently is possible) a 10 year old to decide when he or she have had "one drink too many." All this bill seeks to do is protect minors from the health risks associated with alcohol and tobacco. |
| Date | 08:42:23, June 20, 2008 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco |
| Message | Fifteen was the age of adulthood in Sekowo for a very long time, however it got changed. A change that we did not vote for I make note of. Further more if a person screws up, that's life, one does not learn from being coddled, but from their mistakes. |
| Date | 08:47:57, June 20, 2008 CET | From | Sekowan Independent Party | To | Debating the SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco |
| Message | The problem that the Independant Party has with that idea is that, under your logic, a child who has no knowledge of human health should be fully capable of making decisions based upon the knowledge of human health. By that same logic, we should allow those with no training in firearms in our military; no knowledge of nuclear reactors to operate our power plants; no knowledge of driving to manage our transit lines... I could go on. Until children are given at least a proper course in human health, we cannot expect them to make rational decisions based on facts and research. Until such time as they have been given this information through education, in our opinion they should not have the option to "experiment" with such dangerous substances... |
| Date | 09:10:36, June 20, 2008 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco |
| Message | We expect that they would learn this kind of thing in their school's Health classes. OOC: I don't know about other places, by my school taught us about the effects of over consumption of alcohol and other stuff and why and how it was bad. |
| Date | 09:21:51, June 20, 2008 CET | From | Sekowan Independent Party | To | Debating the SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco |
| Message | Will we then mandate a curriculum in which children and taught of the dangers of substance abuse from an early age? And, in that case, which age would be appropriate? Keep in mind also that impairment in adults is amplified in children several times over. A single shot of liquor would be immensely more dangerous for a child than an adult, even risking alcohol poisoning after what would normally (for an adult) be considered a "light drink". OOC: Right, we were taught also, but at what age? We didn't get the "substance abuse" classes until 5th or 6th grade. Even then, alcohol was glossed over (they focused on the hardcore drugs). Funny story for the OOC bit, too. One time a Anti-Drug officer went to a school and passed out three joints. After they started circulating he said "If I don't get three of those back, we'll lock down the school and strip search everybody, and their lockers." He got five back... |
| Date | 10:12:59, June 20, 2008 CET | From | 帝国公明党 (Teikoku Kōmeitō) | To | Debating the SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco |
| Message | We would'nt be opposed to mandating it at say 5th grade (the year most kids get their first sex-ed), since it's highly unlikely that anyone younger then that could, by themselves get a hold of anything. OOC: Well, for me we got taught about drugs starting in 3rd grade, and they probably mentioned stuff about alcohol to, but we got taught stuff about substance abuse of anything throughout middle school and high school. Though I have to admit the High School ones on Meth were rally counter productive since they just taught us how to make it and how to find a Meth house, then let us pet a baby kangaroo. We never had that kind of, well I don't want to say draconian but, Marijuana use is highly socially acceptable around here, heck 76% of people think it should be legalized. Anyways, I bet that, had they done that that a student could have easily sued the school and cop for violation of privacy and other stuff. |
| Date | 10:56:22, June 20, 2008 CET | From | Conservative Party | To | Debating the SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco |
| Message | CP supports the bill and all articles. |
| Date | 17:14:16, June 20, 2008 CET | From | Revolutionary State Socialist Party | To | Debating the SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco |
| Message | We do not support. |
| Date | 08:21:42, June 21, 2008 CET | From | Sekowan Independent Party | To | Debating the SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco |
| Message | As it currently stands, any child with enough money could buy a bottle of alcohol or a pack of cigarettes. If curious, and in posession of the right amount of money (a single bottle of beer is not too many arcade tokens, keep in mind) then they would be fully capable of purchasing these things "on their own". While it is the responsibility of the parents to watch their children, and to properly teach them values and decision making, there will be times when that does not happen as it should. This law would simply be a safeguard, a sort of protective measure if you will, to ensure that youths do not damage the growth of their bodies or minds with alcohol or tobacco. At the age of adulthood, once the individual is free to make lifestyle choices in regards to every other aspect of their life, then the decision to damage their bodies of course becomes theirs. OOC: Sorry if I botched the spelling or grammar in that, I'm dead tired and trying to reply before I crash. |
| Date | 17:04:25, June 21, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco |
| Message | We agree. There could be beer vending machines on the streets. A first-grader would only know the difference by smell, and might just down a Budweiser instead of a 7-Up. |
| Date | 19:11:30, June 21, 2008 CET | From | Sekowan Independent Party | To | Debating the SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco |
| Message | OOC: Moving this to vote. |
| Date | 00:42:53, June 22, 2008 CET | From | Normand Pluralist Party | To | Debating the SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco |
| Message | If a child had the will to drink, it would be quite easily for them to kill themselves with alcohol poisoning. And no parent can ensure that their children will be adequately watched when visiting a friend. [[Interesting fact: Every year, dozens of American college freshmen are hospitalized in Montreal alone for alcohol poisoning: the legal drinking age in Montreal is 18, and so Americans at the schools there will go out and drink a lot of cocktails and what have you, and many of them end up in the hospital coughing up blood. These are fully physically developed adults, mind you. Imagine what would happen to children!]] |
| Date | 17:37:51, June 22, 2008 CET | From | Revolutionary State Socialist Party | To | Debating the SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco |
| Message | (Collage kids should know better, thats removing stupidity from the gene pool) |
| Date | 18:37:35, June 22, 2008 CET | From | Anti-Federalists of Free Sekowo | To | Debating the SIP.2594.001 Modification for Sale of Alcohol/Tobacco |
| Message | (Social Darwinism, anyone? So, why isn't exterminating all (insert minority here) allowed, IMF? It's removing (undesirable trait) from the gene pool.) |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 221 | ||||
| no | Total Seats: 247 | ||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 79 |
| Random fact: The voters enjoy active parties who take upon themselves the initiative to create laws. |
| Random quote: "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." - John Kenneth Galbraith |