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Bill: Private Health Bill
Details
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: February 2610
Description[?]:
| We propose increasing the role of the private sector in health. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Health care policy.
Old value:: There is a free public health care system and a small number of private clinics, which are heavily regulated to ensure they treat their patients well and provide good care.
Current: There is a free public health care system and a small number of private clinics, which are heavily regulated to ensure they treat their patients well and provide good care.
Proposed: Health care is private, but is paid for by the state for people with low incomes.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 19:41:01, July 21, 2008 CET | From | Democrats | To | Debating the Private Health Bill |
| Message | Furthermore there is no way current investment in health care can support a large free health service, so, tax rise, or private health provision. |
| Date | 23:25:25, July 21, 2008 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Private Health Bill |
| Message | DON'T make up stuff as you go along the way. Our current budget DOES support a state-of-the-art health care system. Don't come here and give petty excuses for your proposals. |
| Date | 23:27:29, July 21, 2008 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Private Health Bill |
| Message | You don't have the slighest idea of how the current economics of Lodamun works. I suggest you ask for help if you don't know. |
| Date | 02:42:38, July 22, 2008 CET | From |  National Business Party (NBP) | To | Debating the Private Health Bill |
| Message | LP is turning into an Englishman! :O House of Commons <3 |
| Date | 19:49:28, July 22, 2008 CET | From | Democrats | To | Debating the Private Health Bill |
| Message | We spend about 4.5% of our GDP on health. ooc: compared to about 10% in the UK. Of course perhaps the Lodamun health service produces amazing results despite underinvestment. |
| Date | 20:13:43, July 22, 2008 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Private Health Bill |
| Message | OOC: You cannot compare to real life. GDP in real life and GDP in-game are very different. The GDP in-game is not nearly as accurate in anyway as the one in real life. IC: Again, not the slightest idea of our current economic system. |
| Date | 20:15:22, July 22, 2008 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Private Health Bill |
| Message | "well it will decrese the offere, becaus the public health care offer hasent changed a bit since the last time we had that value, all we did was allow some extra privat clinics to provide a broader offer. This is not about providing a better health care offer, this is just about forcing people to do what you want them to do" Sounds familiar LLP? |
| Date | 20:19:49, July 22, 2008 CET | From | Democrats | To | Debating the Private Health Bill |
| Message | ooc: No its not as accurate, but it is basically all we have to go by, rather than just pulling figures out of thin air. We have a GDP, so do real nations, thus it is possible to compare budget spending as percentages to get some feel of a useful comparison. We spend less on health than the UK, which has an OK national health system, nothing amazing. IC: Fine, give us a brief on our current economic system, we assumed it ran like any other, but obviously not, would the Liberals care to give us some helpful hints as to the magic that operates in Lodamun? |
| Date | 21:53:13, July 22, 2008 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Private Health Bill |
| Message | Sure. We'll be glad to help you. Any budget over 15 million is well-funded, in our current economic system. We spend more than half of our current Defense Budget (largest budget) on health care. OOC: You cannot only check the percent of the GDP. Take into account that less than 25% of our GDP is government spending. We don't spend much in relation to our GDP, so that's not a good figure to by. Now, you can check how much of the entire government's budget we spend then, it is different. |
| Date | 21:58:01, July 22, 2008 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Private Health Bill |
| Message | OOC: OK, let me give you numbers we can actually work with. We spend 18.56% of our budget on Health Care. Compare that to 30.29% we spend on Defense and 29.00% on Education. Do you think that is bad? Please. |
| Date | 22:55:57, July 22, 2008 CET | From | Lodamun Libertarian Party | To | Debating the Private Health Bill |
| Message | OOC: There is not a singel budget that is under 15 million, 15 billion is something else :). I think we are actually overfunding health care since we are using 28 billion LOD on it, when a middleclass salery is 3-4000 LOD a year, I think all budget posts are overfundeded because we have been thinking too much about what is a normal price in our own nation. And also "well it will decrese the offere, becaus the public health care offer hasent changed a bit since the last time we had that value, all we did was allow some extra privat clinics to provide a broader offer. This is not about providing a better health care offer, this is just about forcing people to do what you want them to do" Sounds familiar LLP?" What did I say that made you quote me on that? |
| Date | 22:58:45, July 22, 2008 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Private Health Bill |
| Message | OOC: Yeah, I meant billion. IC: Remember who is the choice advocate? Right, you are the choice advocate and you still vote to take choice away from the people. Simple as this, I hate liars, I think they are worthless and should not even be considered humans beings. Liars, I treat them like crap and I think you are one of them. |
| Date | 22:41:39, July 23, 2008 CET | From | Democrats | To | Debating the Private Health Bill |
| Message | 15 Billion represents less than 2.5% of total GDP. ooc: 18.6% of a budget that you freely admit takes only 25% of government spending from the GDP is hardly good. In fact it merely demonstrates how little the government actually spends on health, yet pretends it can provide a first class service. You have to look at the entire GDP to work out whether a reasonable amount is being spent. Looking at it as a percentage of the budget is fine, but it must be added that the government budget is way below what any real state that provided free health care has. |
| Date | 07:34:52, July 24, 2008 CET | From | The Liberal Party | To | Debating the Private Health Bill |
| Message | OOC: Look, the in-game economics section is not fully developed. The GDP is very innacurate as it only takes into account very little information. It doesn't take into account unemployment and such. So, we can only go with the percent of the budget spent. First time I hear a Conservative say thos words: "In fact it merely demonstrates how little the government actually spends on health." Are you even a Conservative? Given the fact that you don't know or understand or know and understand the economics section of the game, I am going to go with this words. We provided a first class health care service, GET OVER IT! Don't look for excuses to implement your failed policies of privatization. |
| Date | 22:39:16, July 24, 2008 CET | From | Democrats | To | Debating the Private Health Bill |
| Message | ooc: Yes, the in game economics sections is not fully developed, however, it still exists, and it can still be utilised. The GDP is there for a reason, ok it's not entirely accurate, but hey, its there, and can be used. So say we can only go with the percent of the budget is nonsense. Government spending takes the GDP into account for crying out loud. You can hardly say the GDP is an invalid tool, but then say that something derived from it is perfectly valid. The Conservative Party in the game is conservative. I have a feeling that I understand the economics section better than you as you continue to ignore the fact that actually the GDP is rather useful, and actually it is a pretty good way of working out whether what the government spends is a realistic amount. And no, you didn't provide a first class health service, because the health service was underfunded, understand that. And try not to confuse what is IC and what is OOC, you seem to be continuosly confusing the two. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||
| yes |
Total Seats: 85 | ||
| no |
Total Seats: 60 | ||
| abstain | Total Seats: 5 |
| Random fact: Players should not role-play characters without the consent of the owner, and if they find they have role-played the character beyond what the owner intended, they should withdraw or amend the role-play appropriately. |
| Random quote: "Difference of religion breeds more quarrels than difference of politics." - Wendell Phillips |