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Bill: RP/OOC: National Census 2700
Details
Submitted by[?]: Order of the Golden Crown
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: August 2700
Description[?]:
| OOC: We need a definitive and incontrovertible measurement of the ethnic and religious makeup of this nation for RP purposes. For the sake of strengthening its authority, this bill ought to pass by at least 2/3 of the legislature. The following RP settlement represents the agreement of the vast majority of the Nation. Let it be the indisputable authority in all such matters that it concerns until such time that an equally authoritative declaration is produced. The Ethnic and Religious composition of Quanzar (formerly Istalia) is as follows: ***ETHNIC GROUPS*** 50% ARAB of WHICH 75% are Muslim 25% are Catholic 25% ISTALIAN/ITALIAN OF WHICH 50% are Muslim 50% are Catholic 20% ENGLISH/SOLENTIAN OF WHICH 75% Catholic 25% Muslim 5% OTHERS OF WHICH 50% Have religions that are neither Muslim nor Catholic. Which includes Jewish, Manichean, Protestant, or other. 25% are Muslim 25% are Catholic ***RELIGIOUS GROUPS*** 56.25% Muslim 41.25% Orthodox Catholic 2.5% Other (Jewish, Manichean, or Protestant). |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 08:28:08, January 17, 2009 CET | From | Hessexian Arab Royalists | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | My preference is for the country to be something like this: 50% Arab 25% English 25% Italian Religion-wise: 40% Muslim 30% Orthodox Catholic 20% Protestant (all types) 10% Other/none |
| Date | 20:59:06, January 17, 2009 CET | From | Coalizione di Chierici Islamica | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | RP: There are no Arabs. There are English or Italians. The Italians HERE happen to be Muslim, as well as many English. |
| Date | 19:38:13, January 18, 2009 CET | From | Hessexian Arab Royalists | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | I could just as easily say there are no Italians. |
| Date | 22:43:19, January 18, 2009 CET | From | Coalizione di Chierici Islamica | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | Why does this have to be complicated? |
| Date | 03:19:36, January 19, 2009 CET | From | Order of the Golden Crown | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | Look, this is going to be about compromise. There were most definitely Arabs in this country, just look at the history that I have provided-- it's utterly undeniable. These Arabs were also the original Muslims. Some Italians may be Muslim as well, but certainly not all of them. We all need to accept that there are three ethnicities and three languages in Quanzar. CCI, within that framework, what sort of distribution would you like to see? |
| Date | 04:48:55, January 19, 2009 CET | From | Coalizione di Chierici Islamica | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | RP: Ok well we will accept that there are Italians and the ETHNIC distribution as said by the HAR. But we would like to make an extension that the Italians are also Muslim and that the English are the Christians here. We will also change our party to a Muslim party that reaches across ethnic lines if that is the accepted compromise. |
| Date | 05:00:27, January 19, 2009 CET | From | Hessexian Arab Royalists | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | Are you saying that all the Italians in Quanzar are Muslim? Would the other Italian parties accept that? |
| Date | 05:01:11, January 19, 2009 CET | From | Hessexian Arab Royalists | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | Also, many Arabs are Christians. Our party is split between Muslims and Orthodox Catholics. |
| Date | 05:24:45, January 19, 2009 CET | From | Order of the Golden Crown | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | OOC: I think that it's fair to say that no ethnic group is _entirely_ one religion or another. However, considering how the CCI is the largest Istalian-associated party, it is also fair to say that many, at the very least least one third, of the Istalians are currently Muslims. The English are probably predominantly Christians, but they may not be the only ones, as there are also Christian Arabs throughout the Middle East, and the HAR represents their counterparts in Quanzar. We're glad that a greater feeling of consensus is being reached. We're willing to commit some of our voters to any given ethnicity or religion to make this work. |
| Date | 08:33:17, January 19, 2009 CET | From | Coalizione di Chierici Islamica | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | Ok this is just a proposal. Let's keep on throwing out suggestions and we have to compromise sometime. ETHNIC GROUPES 50% Arab 25% Italian or "Istalian" 25% English OF WHICH 25% of Arabs are Orthodox Catholic. THE OTHER 75% of Arabs are Muslim. (Considering the fact that most of Arabs are Muslim.) OF ISTALIANS or ITALIANS 50% are Muslim THE OTHER 50% being Orthodox Catholic. (Considering the real facts that most Italians are Catholic and that our party composes roughly a third of the Istalian population.) OF ENGLISH 75% are Catholic. and the other 25% are Muslim. History: The Italians and Arabs were the first ones here in Ancient Times and they were followers of Islam. Then the English came and they were Orthodox Catholic and they converted some about half of the Istalians who were more sypathetic to their cause. While they converted some but not all of the Arabs. While in the mean time the English intermingled and some found Islam as a religion of choice. I factored out the Protestantism, because I thought that would REALLY complicate things. (P.S I am a Lutheran, so nothing against Protestants). RELIGIOUS GROUPES 43.7% is Orthodox Catholic and 56.3% is Muslim This can also create a unique history for the country. We will follow the line of Albania where even though most of the nation is atheist or agnostic they continually align themselves as a religion because of family history. That will factor out the atheist or agnostic groupes. Please tell me what you all think. (= |
| Date | 08:33:19, January 19, 2009 CET | From | Coalizione di Chierici Islamica | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | Ok this is just a proposal. Let's keep on throwing out suggestions and we have to compromise sometime. ETHNIC GROUPES 50% Arab 25% Italian or "Istalian" 25% English OF WHICH 25% of Arabs are Orthodox Catholic. THE OTHER 75% of Arabs are Muslim. (Considering the fact that most of Arabs are Muslim.) OF ISTALIANS or ITALIANS 50% are Muslim THE OTHER 50% being Orthodox Catholic. (Considering the real facts that most Italians are Catholic and that our party composes roughly a third of the Istalian population.) OF ENGLISH 75% are Catholic. and the other 25% are Muslim. History: The Italians and Arabs were the first ones here in Ancient Times and they were followers of Islam. Then the English came and they were Orthodox Catholic and they converted some about half of the Istalians who were more sypathetic to their cause. While they converted some but not all of the Arabs. While in the mean time the English intermingled and some found Islam as a religion of choice. I factored out the Protestantism, because I thought that would REALLY complicate things. (P.S I am a Lutheran, so nothing against Protestants). RELIGIOUS GROUPES 43.7% is Orthodox Catholic and 56.3% is Muslim This can also create a unique history for the country. We will follow the line of Albania where even though most of the nation is atheist or agnostic they continually align themselves as a religion because of family history. That will factor out the atheist or agnostic groupes. Please tell me what you all think. (= |
| Date | 09:16:49, January 19, 2009 CET | From | Order of the Golden Crown | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | Very good. We agree on the general points, so I think that now we can make some realistic adjustments, because no country has only 3 ethnic groups and 2 religions. I've tried to roughly estimate the portions, but feel free to modify them if you like. ETHNIC GROUPS 51% Arab (Approximately 4/11 are Catholic, 6/11 are Muslim, and 1/11 are other) 17% Italian or "Istalian" (5/11 are Muslim, 5/11 are catholic, and 1/11 are other) 17% English (7/11 are Catholic, 2/11 are Muslim, and 2/11 are other) 5% Solentians (religious background unknown) 10% Others (religious background unknown) RELIGIOUS GROUPS 40.1% Orthodox Catholic 46.9% Muslim 5.4% Protestant Christian 5.0% Atheist/Agnostic 2.6% Other --1.7% Manichean --0.9% Jewish --0.2% Other |
| Date | 10:19:16, January 19, 2009 CET | From | Coalizione di Chierici Islamica | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | Ok I like the idea of compromise and just everyone else working off of what has been made. I like the idea that we've added the Solentians to the groupe and the others. However, I think that we should follow the Albanian model when it comes to the Arabs, English, and the Istalians. The Albanian model being that there is no classification of Agnostic or Atheist and that everyone belongs to a religous groupe; as that is identified as a characteristic of culture; besides the fact that most people in Albania are non-religous or Atheist; and I believe it could serve as a valid model for Quanzar. As well as the entire idea of adding the "others" groupe. We really belive this as a format for keeping it simple. Besides I think the pre-history could also explain a good rationale for having three ethnic groupes and two religions. The Istalians and Arabs were the first ones here, theyre all Muslims, the English come in and swirl the pot up and introduce Catholicism. The Istalians are more submitive and the Arabs are more resistant to Catholicism. I mean I think it has a good ring to it lol. |
| Date | 16:46:57, January 19, 2009 CET | From |  Conservative Party of Solentia | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | I'm not particularly involved, but I believe it may be realistic to mesh the Solentian/English groups, since you really need somewhere for the English to have come from, and while Solentia is primarily white (80%), it's never been established specifically what ethnicity they are, but they are roleplayed almost exclusively as English or American, just de facto. If you have other ideas that's fine, but this suggestion would also help my RP, so I thought I'd suggest it :) |
| Date | 18:10:30, January 19, 2009 CET | From | Hessexian Arab Royalists | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | Yes, I think English and Solentian need to be merged, unless they were born in Solentia and just immigrated to Quanzar. So far I like the current proposal by the OGC, but I agree with the CCI that atheist/agnostic should be removed because this is a society very much aware of their religious affiliations. The atheist/agnostic population should simply keep quiet. |
| Date | 19:07:06, January 19, 2009 CET | From | Order of the Golden Crown | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | I agree. I think that the Rhodes Front might appreciate at least some Protestant presence. So, if we might define things broadly, then ETHNIC GROUPS 50% Arab (~70% are Muslim, ~30% Catholic) 23% Italian or "Istalian" (~50% Muslim, ~50% Catholic) 23% English/Solentian (~80% Catholic, ~20% Muslim) 4% Other (Religious Makeup Unknown) (Note: these percentages are approximate and may vary by +/- 2%, with the implicit "other group," which includes Protestants, Manichean, and Jews, constituting marginal numbers of each ethnic group) RELIGIOUS GROUPS 50% Muslim 40% Orthodox Catholic 6% Protestant Christian 4% Other (includes Manichean and Jewish) Again, I'm totally flexible with the numbers. I only include the Jews because they seem to be present in every country that doesn't have an anti-semitic past, and I don't think that we do. I hope that you'll all indulge my Manichean fancy--I think they're pretty cool pseudo-proto-Christians. |
| Date | 19:55:20, January 19, 2009 CET | From | Coalizione di Chierici Islamica | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | Well I don't think the Rhodes Front are Protestant, it just says that they are an Anglo-minority party aimed at preserving Anglo-minority rule. But I agree to the Solentian and English idea. ETHNIC GROUPES 50% ARAB of WHICH 75% are Muslim 25% are Catholic 30% ITALIAN/ISTALIAN of WHICH (The reason for this increase is about the mean that the Istalian parties have had over the years which comes out to more or less 30%). 50% are Muslim 50% are Catholic 15% SOLENTIAN/ENGLISH OF WHICH 75% Catholic 25% Muslim 5% OTHERS OF WHICH 50% Have religions that are not Muslim nor Catholic. Which includes Jewish, Manichean, Protestant, or other. 25% are Muslim 25% are Catholic RELIGOUS GROUPES 57.5% Muslim 40.0% Catholic 2.5% Other (Jewish, Manichean, or Protestant). We strongly support this one. |
| Date | 20:07:50, January 19, 2009 CET | From | Order of the Golden Crown | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | OK, we're willing to support this one. |
| Date | 20:09:12, January 19, 2009 CET | From | Hessexian Arab Royalists | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | There are three English parties and three Italian parties so they should at least be equal in population. The Rhodes Front have said before that they are Protestant and they should be represented because Christians are almost never the same. I would have to say that I still strongly support the OGC proposal. |
| Date | 20:16:41, January 19, 2009 CET | From | Order of the Golden Crown | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | When it comes down to it, the proposals are extremely similar, never differing my even 10% in any given area. I suppose that mine is somewhat more inclusive though, and it takes the electoral successes of the English parties into account. |
| Date | 21:38:24, January 19, 2009 CET | From | Coalizione di Chierici Islamica | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | Well like the historic success of the Italian parties, they controlled the country for decades without having a majority. It's a weird pradox, but it's happened. |
| Date | 23:00:34, January 19, 2009 CET | From | Hessexian Arab Royalists | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | We're not asking for a majority, just that both the Italian and English populations match each other. |
| Date | 03:24:53, January 20, 2009 CET | From | Coalizione di Chierici Islamica | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | Well we think the Italians should be more numerous than the English. |
| Date | 03:28:36, January 20, 2009 CET | From | Order of the Golden Crown | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | OK, let's not let these talks collapse. Instead of 50-Arab, 30-Italian, 15-English, how about 50-Arab, 25-Italian, 20-English. |
| Date | 03:51:08, January 20, 2009 CET | From | Hessexian Arab Royalists | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | We can accept that. |
| Date | 21:30:37, January 20, 2009 CET | From | Quanzari Restorationists | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | We could accept some sort of "Jus Prima Noctae" to further diminish the Italian bloodline. |
| Date | 00:55:02, January 21, 2009 CET | From | Hessexian Arab Royalists | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | Wouldn't that just spread it even more and create a class of mixed breeds? |
| Date | 01:07:46, January 21, 2009 CET | From | Quanzari Restorationists | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | That is perhaps, so. It would certainly tend to anger people. We withdraw the idea. |
| Date | 05:26:55, January 22, 2009 CET | From | Coalizione di Chierici Islamica | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | We agree to the 50-Arab, 25-Istalian, 25-Solentian agreement. With the following full title. ETHNIC GROUPES 50% ARAB of WHICH 75% are Muslim 25% are Catholic 25% ISTALIAN/ITALIAN OF WHICH 50% are Muslim 50% are Catholic 20%SOLENTIAN/ENGLISH OF WHICH 75% Catholic 25% Muslim 5% OTHERS OF WHICH 50% Have religions that are not Muslim nor Catholic. Which includes Jewish, Manichean, Protestant, or other. 25% are Muslim 25% are Catholic RELIGOUS GROUPES 56.25% Muslim 41.25% Orthodox Catholic 2.5% Other (Jewish, Manichean, or Protestant). I suppose if this is the agreed upon format. We can move this onto a vote and adopt this as history for demographical purposes. |
| Date | 06:30:55, January 22, 2009 CET | From | Hessexian Arab Royalists | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | We'd support it. |
| Date | 06:32:34, January 22, 2009 CET | From | Order of the Golden Crown | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | OK, I just want to get this whole thing finalized. We support. |
| Date | 17:03:58, January 22, 2009 CET | From | Quanzari Restorationists | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | We'll vote for it so that something is finalized, but I believe Rhodes Front represents Protestants and by the numbers, they're not really represented in the bill. I suspect this bill might have to be redone at some point. |
| Date | 02:59:23, January 23, 2009 CET | From | Order of the Golden Crown | To | Debating the RP/OOC: National Census 2700 |
| Message | Yeah, it's not going to get the 2/3 we were hoping for. Nonetheless, it's the best we have, and the Rhodes Front can participate more actively the next time this issue comes up. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 395 | ||||
| no | Total Seats: 0 | ||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 204 |
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