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Bill: Income Tax - Feedback
Details
Submitted by[?]: Beach Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill proposes to change income taxes. It requires more than half of the legislature to vote yes. This bill will pass as soon as the required yes votes are in, or will be defeated if unsufficient votes are reached on the deadline.
Voting deadline: May 2135
Description[?]:
| Tried to make it nice and simple. Cut all income tax on people earning less than enough money to live on. |
Proposals
Article 1
We propose to alter income tax brackets to the following setup. Information about the current income tax system can be found here.
| Bracket | Tax | Estimated Revenue |
| > 2,000 RCR | 10% | 11,666,000,000 RCR |
| > 4,000 RCR | 15% | 16,468,000,000 RCR |
| > 6,000 RCR | 20% | 17,398,000,000 RCR |
| > 8,000 RCR | 25% | 30,627,000,000 RCR |
| > 12,000 RCR | 30% | 24,159,000,000 RCR |
| > 16,000 RCR | 35% | 16,630,000,000 RCR |
| > 20,000 RCR | 40% | 29,905,000,000 RCR |
Total | 146,853,000,000 RCR |
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 01:54:38, October 20, 2005 CET |
From | Beach Party | To | Debating the Income Tax - Feedback | | Message | How are we punishing them? They still have more money than everyone else. Flat Tax is hardly fair, it keeps the poor poor and the rich rich. |
| Date | 04:13:26, October 20, 2005 CET |
From | Parti Monarchiste Catholique | To | Debating the Income Tax - Feedback | | Message | Actually I think a flat tax is the most fair income tax of all. If the tax was 15% you would pay 15% of your pay, no matter what you made. The current income tax is progressive, meaning that it takes more from those with a higher income. Sales taxes are regressive, since poor people spend almost all of their income. |
| Date | 06:08:09, October 20, 2005 CET |
From | Beach Party | To | Debating the Income Tax - Feedback | | Message | If you have a yearly wage of 3000 RCR you get 2700, enough to live on.
If you have a yearly wage of 30000 RCR you get 18000, a lot more than you need to live on.
Using this tax rate we can make it most low wage jobs livable on. Which is better 1 person living on a 30,000 RCR job or 10 people who can live on 3,000 RCR jobs?
Flat Tax will make low wage jobs impossible to live on meaning we will need to create more high paying jobs, how do you propose we do that? |
| Date | 10:18:34, October 20, 2005 CET |
From | Union for the Rights of Christian Women | To | Debating the Income Tax - Feedback | | Message | John Smith a 30 year old Rildanorian, he’s a good Christian and never cared much about school or work. He works as a guard at a local store. He never cared about his job, maybe that is the reason he never stayed in one place more than 6 months. He makes around 10000 RC a year.
Bob Johnson a 45 year old gay Jew. While most young Rildanorians were partying he studied, while others were at disco or in clubs he worked because he also had a part time job. He graduated from both the Polytechnic Institute as well as the University, he has an MBA and works around 14 h a day, seven days a week. He makes around 100 000 RC a year.
Why punish Bob? Because he’s gay ? Because he’s a Jew? Or maybe because he studied too much? Because he works like a slave?
You will say that John has to survive too! Fair enough! He can always work more like Bob/ go to school/eat a little worst, use the bus or walk to work.
Do not take more from the people that make so many sacrifices and work their ass off. Should they pay more just because they are rich? Hell yes! 16% out of 10 000 is TEN times more than 16% out of 100 000! What do they get in return ? Ten times more police protection ? Ten times more parks ? Ten times more roads? No. They just the same schools, roads, police as the rest. In fact John can go to work by bus because of Bob who pays so much for something that hasn’t used in years.
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| Date | 10:31:27, October 20, 2005 CET |
From | Union for the Rights of Christian Women | To | Debating the Income Tax - Feedback | | Message | If you think that was out og line or too long,I'll summerize:
Two identical people, gratuated from the same school,one has a job the other has two, why punish the hard working one? |
| Date | 19:44:02, October 20, 2005 CET |
From | Beach Party | To | Debating the Income Tax - Feedback | | Message | No one in the country earns more than 40,000 RCR a year and those are only the CEOs of our largest companies. Most people live on 500 to 2,000 keeping them below the poventy line.
What people with high incomes get is the ability to stay rich and not have a mob of poor people kill them and take their things. Worth a little extra money I think. |
| Date | 09:53:56, October 21, 2005 CET |
From | Union for the Rights of Christian Women | To | Debating the Income Tax - Feedback | | Message | "Most people live on 500 to 2,000 keeping them below the poventy line..."
What??????? Excuse me? What are you talkning about? How on earth do you know they live under the poverty line? |
| Date | 10:09:08, October 21, 2005 CET |
From | Union for the Rights of Christian Women | To | Debating the Income Tax - Feedback | | Message | Sorry for the above post.But you cannot possible know they are under the poverty line. I mean this are RC not euro and even if it were euros. I make around 2500 E a year for 80 h a week and i am not below the poverty line,I am actually far from it. So your argument does not stand. |
| Date | 21:18:21, October 21, 2005 CET |
From | Beach Party | To | Debating the Income Tax - Feedback | | Message | It's an estimate seeing I can't get actual world figures. Seeing all countries are pretty much the same size the poorest in our country are also poorest in the world. |
| Date | 11:34:50, October 22, 2005 CET |
From | Union for the Rights of Christian Women | To | Debating the Income Tax - Feedback | | Message | Well the problem is what country is Rildanor. You seem to assume that this is the UK where everybody pays their taxes no matter how high they are. However that doesn’t happen everywhere, in some cases using a flat tax actually increases the budget.
Leaving that aside, let’s assume it’s the UK. If you have a progressive tax system you collect more money than if you have a flat tax. So it depends on what kind of economy/society you want to build. One in which the weak are taken care of, where all citizens enjoy a minimum standard of living regardless of how much they are willing to work etc. Or a Darwinist approach where everyone can take care for themselves. A flat tax encourages work, the more you work the more you have. But in order for a government to survive it will move the tax burden on indirect taxes. So an individual that works his ass off and eats practically nothing uses the same cloths etc can keep most of his money (unlike in the progressive system). But if you want to buy anything you will be taxed more. Also luxury goods then to be taxed more (not to punish the rich but to make sure that money is reinvested, not all agree with this though). So for example a 16% tax on all (work, corporate, goods) and a 20-22% tax on luxury goods is a good example. Where are the arguments pro flat tax? Well as I said before it depends on how you view the future of Rildanor, a country where the infrastructure is built by the state so all can have road access, where the governments tries to narrow the gap between the rich and the poor or a country where the market is left to decide on its own what are the priorities and where the narrowing or widening the gap between the rich and poor is depends only on the citizens.
To conclude, in my opinion the tax system is a part of the overall strategy for the future of Rildanor. So you set the taxes depending on what you think is best for Rildanor that is why there is no point in trying to convince you to vote for a flat tax if you have other plans.
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| Date | 04:13:15, November 02, 2005 CET |
From | Beach Party | To | Debating the Income Tax - Feedback | | Message | Fair enough, your point is valid. I'll see what everyone else thinks. |
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| Vote |
Seats |
| yes | Total Seats: 46 |
| no | Total Seats: 54 |
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Don't vote yes on a cabinet coalition that doesn't give you the power that you deserve. |
| Random quote: "While the State exists, there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State." - Vladimir Lenin |