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Bill: New Solentia Act 2785

Details

Submitted by[?]: Coalition for National Unity [CNU]

Status[?]: defeated

Votes: This bill asks for an amendement to the Constitution. It will require two-thirds of the legislature to vote in favor. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.

Voting deadline: October 2785

Description[?]:

As proposed by Senator for Shinatawa, The Honourable Margaret Took (C: Sh), Conservative Opposition Leader, Leader of the Conservative and Morality Party.

---==NEW NAME==---
Current Value: Federal Republic of Solentia
Proposed Value: Second Solentian Republic
---====---

Proposals

Debate

These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:

Date18:33:00, July 11, 2009 CET
From Conservative Party of Solentia
ToDebating the New Solentia Act 2785
MessageWhat is the reasoning behind this act? Solentia has been a Federal Republic for hundreds of years and now you seek to do away with it, what happened to the 'first republic?' Why do you seek to destroy the position of Senate Warden, when it has historically been a position of great importance to the nation? Why do you seek to replace one advantage given to large regions in the Senate with another advantage given to small regions? This bill will never have the support of the SHP!

Andrew Thomas, SHP Chairman

Date18:45:05, July 11, 2009 CET
From Coalition for National Unity [CNU]
ToDebating the New Solentia Act 2785
Message"The rationale behind this Act is quite simple. Over the years, there has been multiple attempts to radically reform the nation and there have been blocks. Each time, the issue is never solved and is simply delayed for another 50 years or so. The CMP seek a moderate alternative and compromise settlement that would see the change that some seek exists without damaging Solentia's history. Traditionally, the CMP have agreed with the SHP on such issues, we prefer the status quo, however in order to preserve a peaceful political consensus, we are presently more willing to compromise on the issue.

The CMP has long supported the ending of the role of the Senate Warden, who's function as leader of the Cabinet and Senate can easily be performed by the Supreme President or a Senatorially-appointed Vice President.

On the matter of Represenation, the CMP knows and understands the value and importance of Solentia's smaller, agricultural and more remote communities and as such we see them as equal in value to the urban areas. We wish to see the city and country recieve equal status, regardless of population size in their area.

The First Republic is our present Republic; the "Federal Republic" however we are hoping that with this new era of change, cooperation and collaberation, a Second, more fruitful Republic may be born."

Sen. Margaret Took (C: Sh)
CMP Leader

Date18:58:07, July 11, 2009 CET
From Conservative Party of Solentia
ToDebating the New Solentia Act 2785
MessageSenator Took,

The Supreme President currently holds a role that, when, in a time of national emergency, for example, can become overwhelmingly important and stressful. I do not believe that it is prudent to place so much more responsibility on a man or woman who already holds the most responsibility of any Solentian citizen. I need not point out to the historically acute party that the CMP is that the position of Senate Warden has also traditionally served as a training ground of sorts for those who would later go on to become Supreme President. The SHP will not support the removal of the Senate Warden position.

With all due respect, I believe your reasoning on the issue of Senate representation is shaky at best. You claim that your plan offers equality, but in reality it will dramatically increase the power of those living in rural areas over those in urban areas. Say there are 10 Senators required to be seated in two regions: One region has 100,000 citizens to be represented by those 10 Senators, and the other has only 10,000 citizens to be represented by an "equal" 10 Senators. It becomes apparent through this hypothetical situation that the 10,000:1 ratio in the large region is hardly equal to the 1,000:1 ratio in the small region. The SHP will not support this portion of the bill either.

The renaming of the Republic seems arbitrary and places enormous pressure on the nation to change when there is no need, in the eyes of the SHP. I would remind the Senator that the CMP's own Catherine York said nearly 200 years ago: "Change where change is needed; never for change's sake." The SHP feels that the name "Federal Republic" should stand.

Lastly, I have not addressed your proposed renaming of the capitol: Why? Just more arbitrary filler in the eyes of the SHP.

Andrew Thomas
SHP Chairman

Date19:18:44, July 11, 2009 CET
From Coalition for National Unity [CNU]
ToDebating the New Solentia Act 2785
Message"The issue is, Mr. Thomas, that the Office of the Supreme President quite often ends an administration having been quite unable to achieve their agenda's due to senatorial opposition. The Supreme President, in our eyes, has more democratic mandate than the Senate as a staunch majority of the country is rallied behind that individual and his/her agenda. The Supreme President therefore needs more direct control of the various ministries to ensure that his/her agenda is fully initiated. This, conmbined with our other proposals regarding the issue, will conciderably strengthen the Presidential office.

The CMP comprehends fully the issue of citizen-represenative ratio and can understand why the SHP may oppose such measures, however we ask to concider this; if, as we know is the case, more people reside in Solentia's cities, why then should they hold the power, through their represenatives, to determine countryside/agricultural policy? Solentia is a balance between the modern and the traditional communities and we feel that both require serious represenation on an equal basis. We need to look beyond the simple maths and statistics and toward the actual issue, which is equality.

Penultimately, on the issue of the naming of the Republic, the CMP are very aware of the nature of change, and have long supported necessary change only. However we also know the value of image. The longer a nation is set and organised in a particular way, the harder it is to change when the time is needed. A new name and face for the Republic would see Solentians willing to embrace change more easily and readily when it is needed. If we are to change, as the CMP feels we need to, then it should be fully and wholly, not half-heartedly and in part.

On the issue of the capital City, the CMP feels that the centre of Halion has been the location of vast bloodshed and violance. Halion has grown greatly during it's spout as this nation's capital and we would like to share that growth with the rest of the nation. Surely, a new capital would be the ultimate symbol of change?"

Sen. Margaret Took (C: Sh)
CMP Leader

Date19:45:43, July 11, 2009 CET
From Conservative Party of Solentia
ToDebating the New Solentia Act 2785
MessageSenator Took,

When you describe the battle that occurs between the Supreme President and the Senate on a daily basis, you have described the sole purpose of the Senate. You remain as a representative check against the abuse of power by a directly elected Supreme President. If the Supreme President's will was to be made law whenever he so wished, even if he is democratically elected, then he is nothing more than a benevolent dictator. The Senate is elected democratically as well, Senator. It is their duty to be more well informed than the average citizen, and to vote for what is best, not necessarily what is popular.

It seems to me that you support giving more power to regional government, rather than changing the way in which regional Senate proportion is decided. If your issue is with a federal government deciding what is best for its constituent parts, then say so directly and proposed legislation taking action on that, but do not claim that your system is "equal."

If I understand correctly, your reasoning behind the name change is to 'butter up' the public (so to speak) for another name change in the future: If that is so, what name will you have us assuming in a year? In 10 years? How long until we are the 80th Republic?

The cost associated with moving the capitol to Alya would be astronomical. Government bureaucracies and buildings would need to be relocated, and all in the name of growing the city? Propose city improvement bills, do not presume that a 'simple' move of the capitol would spur economic growth, Senator!

Andrew Thomas
SHP Chairman

Date00:32:29, July 12, 2009 CET
From Coalition for National Unity [CNU]
ToDebating the New Solentia Act 2785
Message"The CMP does not support a further name change Mr. Thomas, this would be a sufficient change to deal with. The role of the Senate remains the same under our proposals, what is changing is the nature of the executive, not the legislature. The Senate Warden is a role that can easily be combined with that of Supreme President and would give President's much tighter control over their own Governments and Administrations."

Sen. Margaret Took (C: Sh)
CMP Leader

Date00:49:12, July 12, 2009 CET
From Federal Independent Party
ToDebating the New Solentia Act 2785
MessageAs a party that founded the Federal Republic and has seen the system tested tried and true, the amalgamation of the Supreme Presidential office and the Senate Wardenship is an unwise choice. The Supreme Presidency has existed as the true executive of the country and has represented the pinnacle of the executive branch in the Federal Republic's existing checks and balances. The Senate Warden has acted as the head of the Senate and legislative authority in this nation and thusly has held various different integral duties that must not be mixed with the Supreme President's duties. Such a move would be consolidating power in an unwise fashion.

The Senate Warden has also added a way for the Supreme President to extend his/her voice into the Senate and achieve more bi-partisan agendas and grounds. Without the Senate Warden, many administration would not have produced nearly as much change or efficiency as has been done in the past. The Senate Warden is also a way to push bi-partisan politics into play, with one party running a Supreme President while the other is given the Senate Wardenship in order to serve as a boon to party relations in the Senate. That way, the citizens' second choice is still represented as the chief legislative authority and legal Vice Supreme President as enacted by law years ago. Furthermore, we see no need for any changes.

Speaking on representation, we stand by the Solentian Heritage Party's argument and continue to believe that the current law, which has had this party's support since its first implementation, is the right choice for Solentia.

Halion has become a beautiful, safe, and politically rich and diverse grounds for life in Solentia. It is the best way to represent Solentia in arguably the most favorable light. Only Rhegium would prove an equal in desire as a capitol. Consequently, we see a chance to Alya as a more detrimental choice for a new capitol.

FIP Senate Speaker George Diolace

Date15:37:10, July 12, 2009 CET
From Coalition for National Unity [CNU]
ToDebating the New Solentia Act 2785
Message"The Independents are thanked for their contribution to the debate, even if they do not support."

Sen. Margaret Took (C: Sh)
CMP Leader

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Voting

Vote Seats
yes
   

Total Seats: 148

no
   

Total Seats: 277

abstain
 

Total Seats: 0


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