We are working on a brand new version of the game! If you want to stay informed, read our blog and register for our mailing list.
Bill: Cooperative Welfare Bill
Details
Submitted by[?]: Cooperative League of Aldegar
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: March 2817
Description[?]:
| Making child benefit universal will ensure that no-one who needs it will fall through the cracks in the system. It will also cut down on the waste and inefficiency caused by the unenessary bureaucracy involved in means testing. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The government's policy regarding child benefit.
Old value:: The state guarantees child benefit to both low-income families and large families.
Current: The state guarantees child benefit to all families.
Proposed: The state guarantees child benefit to all families.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 16:07:17, September 12, 2009 CET | From | National Action Party | To | Debating the Cooperative Welfare Bill |
| Message | Why would we give the rich money to support their children? In order to realistically do this, either taxes have to be jacked way up, or benefits are going to have to be cut. If the option is the latter, those poor families we try to help out are losing crucial money. |
| Date | 16:30:54, September 12, 2009 CET | From | Cooperative League of Aldegar | To | Debating the Cooperative Welfare Bill |
| Message | 1. Due to savings made by cutting down on bureaucracy universal benefits only represent a marginal increase in costs at most (ooc. this can be backed up with real world academic research, I didn't just make it up) 2. When benefits are means tested this inevitably leads to people who are entitled to them not getting them due a combination of mistakes in the system and a lack of knowledge amongst people about what their entitlements are (ooc this too can be backed up by real world examples) |
| Date | 17:18:06, September 12, 2009 CET | From | National Action Party | To | Debating the Cooperative Welfare Bill |
| Message | OOC: I would like to see the proof for both of those. 1) Distributing benefits to everyone is still going to require bureaucracy. I don't see how you think expanding benefits could only marginally increase costs. 2) Why do are they entitled to anything at all? Why are we giving incentives for the poor to have children they cannot support. |
| Date | 18:03:47, September 12, 2009 CET | From | Cooperative League of Aldegar | To | Debating the Cooperative Welfare Bill |
| Message | 1) Means testing is massively wasteful as a greater percentage of the allocated money is spent on adminstering the benefits as opposed to being spent on the benefits themselves 2) Child poverty blights people's life chances from the very beginning and has massive societal costs, if you cannot accept that this needs tackled then we have a fundamental philosophical difference which I doubt can be breached OOC: I'll have to dig out some references |
| Date | 19:29:21, September 12, 2009 CET | From | National Action Party | To | Debating the Cooperative Welfare Bill |
| Message | 1) Still don't see how that can possibly be. Source please, 2) Life chances can be given from government funded schooling and healthcare. There isn't even a guarantee that the children will have the money spent on them. |
| Date | 03:05:43, September 13, 2009 CET | From | Cooperative League of Aldegar | To | Debating the Cooperative Welfare Bill |
| Message | re. point 1. regardless of the actual figures it's a simple point of logic that as a PERCENTAGE of spending it costs more to administer means tested benefits than universal benefits, if you can't understand that then it's hardly worth getting into a debate with you. Obviously the actual costs will depend on factors such as level of benefit, staff hours etc, but the fact remains that in terms of effciency a universal benefit is will always trump a means tested one. |
| Date | 03:08:25, September 13, 2009 CET | From | Cooperative League of Aldegar | To | Debating the Cooperative Welfare Bill |
| Message | Anyway, it's all down to the Whigs now isn't it. Hopefully they'll be able to recognise a sensible pro efficiency, anti poverty policy when they see one |
subscribe to this discussion - unsubscribe
Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 299 | ||||
| no | Total Seats: 200 | ||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Particracy does not allow real-life fictional references (eg. Gandalf, Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker). |
| Random quote: "War crimes is such a lilliputian term for the atrocities committed by the Yeudish state." - Katrine Lorenzen, former Kazulian diplomat |