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Bill: It Is The Citizens Money And Not the Governments, Private Pension Plan
Details
Submitted by[?]: Liberal-Progressive Union
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: July 2133
Description[?]:
| The current law forces people to set aside against their will, their own money for a public pension plan. The law currently provides for optional private pensions. The purpose of this bill is to allow our citizens to decide for themselves if 1) They want to begin investing in a private pension plan at a time of their choosing, 2) The amount of money that is put in, and 3) Doesn't it make more sense to eliminate the forced public plan as a optional private pension plan is already available? People should choose for themselves whether or not to use a pension plan and not have the government telling them they have no choice, invest in the public pension. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The government's policy concerning the pension system.
Old value:: The state operates a compulsory public system combined with an optional private pension.
Current: The state operates a compulsory public system combined with an optional private pension.
Proposed: The state does not operate a pension system. Individuals must save up for retirement on their own.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 11:40:37, October 29, 2005 CET | From |  Liberal-Progressive Union | To | Debating the It Is The Citizens Money And Not the Governments, Private Pension Plan |
| Message | Private plans exists, so let's give people the choice to invest their money. Government should not force a public pension plan down peoples throats. |
| Date | 11:46:50, October 29, 2005 CET | From | United Blobs | To | Debating the It Is The Citizens Money And Not the Governments, Private Pension Plan |
| Message | "The purpose of this bill is to allow our citizens to decide for themselves if 1) They want to begin investing in a private pension plan at a time of their choosing" - Already present "2) The amount of money that is put in" - Already given "3) Doesn't it make more sense to eliminate the forced public plan as a optional private pension plan is already available?" - Without any arguments for giving it up. What will happen to those who have been expecting to use the state pension as their retirement income and have not invested in a private one? What will happen to those who do not get round to creating a private pension? What happens to those who lack the financial knowledge to choose between private plans? |
| Date | 11:54:26, October 29, 2005 CET | From | Liberal-Progressive Union | To | Debating the It Is The Citizens Money And Not the Governments, Private Pension Plan |
| Message | They get on a bus, go to a financial planner, and then they tell them how pensions work. It's better then relying on the government to explain how it works. I believe people should learn how to manage their lives, in this case the government just takes their money and their reliance on the government grows and grows, because they never learned how to tie their own damn shoes.. |
| Date | 11:59:30, October 29, 2005 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the It Is The Citizens Money And Not the Governments, Private Pension Plan |
| Message | This is again a bill that discriminates against those with either limited financial knowledge or that do not have enough money to place into a private pension scheme. The Government scheme guarantees that people will receive an income after they retire, and the price is already included in the current rate of taxation. If people wish to use a private pension plan to supplement their income they already can, all this does is take away the guarantee of pensions as they then become at the risk of the market. What happens if the company that operates that pension scheme collapses? You would probably expect the Government to pick up that tab, or perhaps you would rather that those people lose their money? |
| Date | 12:00:18, October 29, 2005 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the It Is The Citizens Money And Not the Governments, Private Pension Plan |
| Message | "They get on a bus, go to a financial planner, " - Which costs more money that these people may not have. |
| Date | 12:03:01, October 29, 2005 CET | From | Liberal-Progressive Union | To | Debating the It Is The Citizens Money And Not the Governments, Private Pension Plan |
| Message | Any company that chooses pensions as a buisness choice, do you not think they are insured? It's not rocket science managing a pension really now. |
| Date | 12:06:56, October 29, 2005 CET | From | Liberal-Progressive Union | To | Debating the It Is The Citizens Money And Not the Governments, Private Pension Plan |
| Message | Are you serious? If they can't afford to hop on a bus then I believe they would have no source of money that a government pension can solve anyway. That shows the competence of a government pension if they "cant afford to take the bus". Taking care of his money. |
| Date | 12:08:33, October 29, 2005 CET | From | Liberal-Progressive Union | To | Debating the It Is The Citizens Money And Not the Governments, Private Pension Plan |
| Message | Financial planners are usually free, or very cheap for the average joe. I have one and I'm pathetic. |
| Date | 12:10:27, October 29, 2005 CET | From | United Blobs | To | Debating the It Is The Citizens Money And Not the Governments, Private Pension Plan |
| Message | "That shows the competence of a government pension if they "cant afford to take the bus"" - So a pension that only takes effect after a person retires prevents them from spending money before then. Also we still don't actually have a public transport system - http://82.238.75.178:8085/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=886 - so theren't any buses for them to catch at present. |
| Date | 12:17:27, October 29, 2005 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the It Is The Citizens Money And Not the Governments, Private Pension Plan |
| Message | "If they can't afford to hop on a bus then I believe they would have no source of money that a government pension can solve anyway." - We again point out that the money for their pension is already included within the taxation they are already paying. Now, the point I made included both the cost of travel and the cost of financial planners who, at the whim of market forces, can charge anything they want, whether they be cheap cheerful and friendly, or invasively expensive. It is their business, their choice. The current legislation allows people to pay into a private scheme should they be able to afford to and/or they would like to increase their income after retirement. "Any company that chooses pensions as a buisness choice, do you not think they are insured?" - They would, I would hope, be insured. However, insurance does not guarantee that the money would be paid in full to those who have paid into the insurance scheme. Many insurance companies will look for the smallest infractions that would, under normal circumstances, not have effected the pension of said person but would stop the insurance company from paying out. Pensions can cost a lot of money and should a person risk losing their income because of business incompetence and red tape, no. The current law guarantees them an income, something we in this Country should be proud of and not be trying to destroy. |
| Date | 12:18:43, October 29, 2005 CET | From | Liberal-Progressive Union | To | Debating the It Is The Citizens Money And Not the Governments, Private Pension Plan |
| Message | Bus, "tube", car, anything. It just popped into my head. |
| Date | 12:19:39, October 29, 2005 CET | From | Liberal-Progressive Union | To | Debating the It Is The Citizens Money And Not the Governments, Private Pension Plan |
| Message | So governments can't go broke? Hmmm interesting. |
| Date | 12:23:59, October 29, 2005 CET | From | United Blobs | To | Debating the It Is The Citizens Money And Not the Governments, Private Pension Plan |
| Message | "So governments can't go broke? Hmmm interesting." - As Finance Minister it's the WSS's jo0b to make sure it doesn't. |
| Date | 12:32:31, October 29, 2005 CET | From | Liberal-Progressive Union | To | Debating the It Is The Citizens Money And Not the Governments, Private Pension Plan |
| Message | Thats why I want nothing to do with our economy. It's a lot of pressure handling the very existance of a nation....I have faith in our minister. |
| Date | 12:34:41, October 29, 2005 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the It Is The Citizens Money And Not the Governments, Private Pension Plan |
| Message | A government is less likely to "go broke" as you put it then a private business. If a government "goes broke" then they cut unessential services. I can guarantee that no Government with any ounce of sense would take pensions as being unessential. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes | Total Seats: 82 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 259 | |||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 59 |
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