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Bill: Upholding Aldegarian Culture

Details

Submitted by[?]: Aldegarian Front

Status[?]: defeated

Votes: This bill proposes the withdrawal from a treaty. It will require half of the legislature to vote in favor[?]. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.

Voting deadline: January 2899

Description[?]:

Nomination to withdraw from treaties that clearly go against the values of the Aldegarian people (OOC: as definited under "Opinions" section)

Proposals

Debate

These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:

Date08:54:58, February 23, 2010 CET
FromPeople's Party - Republican Democrats
ToDebating the Upholding Aldegarian Culture
MessageWe are wondering how the Aldegarian Front arrives at the conclusion that values such as the protection of basic human rights go "clearly" against public opinion.

Date09:29:22, February 23, 2010 CET
FromAldegarian Front
ToDebating the Upholding Aldegarian Culture
MessageOpinion polls have shown, and the Aldegarians have spoken, that the relaxed, liberal, policies of the current administrations go against the better wishes of the general populace. "Basic" human rights includes the right of safety, family, and culture. What we have in these two treaties are not "basic" rights, but a clear undermining of the Aldegarian values for the special interest needs of the administration.

(OOC note: all of my roleplaying criteria is taken from the "Opinions" section of Aldegars page, which lists Civil Rights as "restrictive" and importance "vital," just so know one thinks I'm coming in here and making things up ;-) )

Date09:42:56, February 23, 2010 CET
FromPeople's Party - Republican Democrats
ToDebating the Upholding Aldegarian Culture
MessageWe do not deny that there may be sections in Aldegarian society which hold reactionary opinions opposed to the preservation of human rights, but to infer from a slight tendency towards a restrictive opinion on civil rights that such values are "clearly" opposed to the values of the Aldegarian people is simply presumptuous and an insult to the intelligence of the Aldegarian people.

Date10:00:33, February 23, 2010 CET
FromAldegarian Front
ToDebating the Upholding Aldegarian Culture
MessageSo, strong beliefs deeply ingrained into the Aldegarian people and culture are set aside by the establishment as nothing more than "reactionary opinions" held by a few "sections" of society? A "slight tendency!" The Aldegarian people seem to hold them as "vital" to their very being, and we cannot, with the power we hold, just throw away an entire people for the sake of our own moral convictions. No, these treaties represent an outrage to the very fabric of the Aldegarian people, and a destruction of a culture at the hands special interests. We are expected to represent these people, yet this administration sits here today mocking them.

Date10:37:51, February 23, 2010 CET
FromGreen Party of Aldegar
ToDebating the Upholding Aldegarian Culture
MessageYou do realise that by allowing abortion, homosexuality, etc those who do no abortions or are not homesexuals can still coexist. In other worlds, they can still practice whatever culture they wish to.

The Greens and this government hold the view that a clear distinction has to be made between individual rights and collective rights. In matters of the economic, we believe collective right should play a bigger role. In matters of social issues, we believe that it is best to leave most of them to the individual.

Date14:00:07, February 23, 2010 CET
FromPeople's Party - Republican Democrats
ToDebating the Upholding Aldegarian Culture
MessageThe Aldegarian Front purposely ignores that, while the people in general do regard the matter of civil rights as of strong importance, that doesn't mean that all of them would like to follow a restrictive path. Overall opinion on this matter is pretty centrist with only a slight tendency towards a restrictive practice (as the lttle rider in that category indicates). To infer from such a situation that the Aldegarian people generally prefer the reactionary policies against which these treaties serve as a barrier is patently absurd.
Furthermore, on morality issues, which are regarded as even more important ('vital', as opposed to 'strong'), there is an equal tendency towards progressive values which certainly offsets the civil rights issue to a cerain extent, as the matters covered by these treaties also touch upon these areas.

Date21:57:13, February 23, 2010 CET
FromAldegarian Front
ToDebating the Upholding Aldegarian Culture
MessageWhat next? We've already outlawed legislation that disagrees with the current administration, so that discussion, voting, and true democracy cannot take place, although both parties admit that there are Aldegarians that hold those views, should we just go ahead and outlaw all parties which disagree with the current administration as well? If only there were a treaty for that I feel this current administration would jump aboard in the claim of "progress" at the expense of democratic freedom for the Aldegarian people.

As for issues raised by both PP-FA and GPA about abortion, homosexuality, and morality, those are for later discussion. These two treaties shackle the Aldegarian people to foreign powers and limit the ability for constructive debate on such issues and denies a truly democratic process, which both parties seem to promote if not in action, then at least in words. The bureaucratic institutions have not responded to the populace that would like to discuss, debate, and vote on these issues, and that is all that is purposely being ignored. The Aldegarian people deserve the "basic" right to have all views on these issues expressed, explored, analyzed, and for the legislation process to take place, rather than be tied down to treaties made my non-Aldegarians that seek to limit free speech and democratic legislation in our nation.

I hope both GPA and PP-FA will reconsider in the name of true direct democracy, of which is being ignored by legislation that limits, and even outright denies open debate, voting, and expression.

Date10:36:12, February 24, 2010 CET
FromGreen Party of Aldegar
ToDebating the Upholding Aldegarian Culture
MessageNo. A true democracy allows for discussion. We are having one right now if I'm not mistaken. You are allowed to propose such bills, and there are no laws banning any parties or ideologies. That is political freedom. But a truly free nation, such as that we are aiming for, allows for different beliefs and lifestyles to coexist. The role of the government *and the public is to ensure that no one is forced to belief or practice what they do not wish to.

As for these treaties, we have to make sure that the views of our today does not interfere in anyway with the lives of our children, which as history suggests will be more and more liberal. These treaties are not made by non-Aldegarians that seek to limit anything in our country. The foreigners have no responsibility in how a country reacts to a treaty it has ratified as there are no super-governance body that regulates foreign policy. States ratify treaties at their own liberty, my friend.

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Voting

Vote Seats
yes
  

Total Seats: 81

no
  

Total Seats: 168

abstain

    Total Seats: 0


    Random fact: In Culturally Protected nations, special care must be taken to ensure realism is maintained when role-playing a government controlled by an ethnic and/or religious minority. If it is to be supposed that this government is supported by a majority of the population, then this should be plausibly and sufficiently role-played. The burden of proof is on the player or players role-playing such a regime to demonstrate that it is being done realistically

    Random quote: "Taxes, after all, are dues that we pay for the privileges of membership in an organized society." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

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