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Bill: Military Aid for Deltaria
Details
Submitted by[?]: Totalitarian Party
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: September 2138
Description[?]:
| Recently, Deltaria has been threatened[1] because of their attempts to keep the peace in their nation. As the Minister for Defence, I feel we should send aid to our Deltarian friends, to show that our signing of the Axis Agreement was not for selfish reasons. While the nation of Lodamun will likely not get involved in the conflict, a single party, the Libertarian Militia, has announced it will be sending troops into Deltaria. The military aid will consist of military equipment, including body armour, modern weapons (rifles, small arms, combat knives), ammunition, rations, water purification tablets, medicine and access to intelligence information taken from Gaduridos' military satellites. Also, Gaduri soldiers will be sent to train the Deltarian Infantry in the use of the equipment, if required. [1] http://82.238.75.178:8085/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=28931 |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 12:13:49, November 06, 2005 CET | From | National Fascisti | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | The National Fascisti agree with the reasons listed above and support this bill. "One man takes a rifle. One man takes ammunition. The man with the rifle runs. The man with the ammunition follows. When the man with the rifle falls, the man with the ammunition loads his rifle and shoots. - Deltarian Infantry Directives" "It is estimated that there are only enough arms for sixty percent of the Standing Deltarian Infantry. Retrieving fallen weapons is standard battle procedure for the Deltarians." Now that's efficiency! |
| Date | 15:08:53, November 06, 2005 CET | From | Nuovo Partito Di Machiavellian | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | Uh...what do you mean we have nothing to lose???? The lives of our service men and women are nothing to you? If we want to sell them weapons that's great, but I see no reason to support this. |
| Date | 15:58:20, November 06, 2005 CET | From | Anarcho-Capitalist Front | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | Is there any way that we can see a report of this situation? I am not especially pleased to send our troops into foreign lands, especially one with a toxic climate. |
| Date | 16:31:24, November 06, 2005 CET | From | Totalitarian Party | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | I never said we have nothing to lose. I said we have little to lose. The men and women of our military surely realise there is a risk of death. We cannot shy away from war, just because we fear our troops may be shot. As the National Fascisti have already pointed out, the Deltarian infantry divisions are poorly equipped, when compared to the rest of the armed forces. We feel our involvement in this conflict will save many Deltarian lives. There is even a chance that our aid will make the Libertarian Militia reconsider their unlawful invasion. CLP: http://www.takeforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=42270&mforum=particracy#42270 The Deltarians launched a nuclear strike against rebel elements in their nation. The Libertarian Militia would like to see the current Deltarian government deposed, and one more in-line with their policies put in its place. I feel the unique features of Deltaria will prove invaluable for assessing our military's effectiveness in harsh climates. Better we use this small conflict to test the capabilities of our military, than to find out in an invasion of our nation that our military is ineffective. The opportunity to assess performance in irradiated environments is especially useful, although our troops will likely see little action in these areas. We feel our military will sustain few losses in this conflict, especially considering the foe they will be fighting will be attempting to use guerrilla tactics in unfamiliar terrain. |
| Date | 17:25:17, November 06, 2005 CET | From | Anarcho-Capitalist Front | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | Have we determined whether this incident was a nuclear attack or the failure of a nuclear plant? Were it the failure of a nuclear plant, we would not be opposed to sending troops to help maintain order, but we are reluctant to send our troops into a situation where nuclear weapons have already been used. |
| Date | 01:07:15, November 07, 2005 CET | From | People's Progressive Party | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | Putting our brave soldiers lives on the line in order to have a "good training excersize" is not reason enough for the parents of our nation's soldiers to accept this foreign intervention as justifiable. How is the Deltarian incident a threat to our Federal Union? |
| Date | 02:33:53, November 07, 2005 CET | From | Totalitarian Party | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | The incident was definitely a nuclear attack, launched by the Deltarians against their own nation. Because of this, a party from Lodamun, the Libertarian Militia, has announced they will be sending troops into Deltaria to conduct a guerrilla war against the current government. This will obviously be an unlawful invasion. Our agreement with the Deltarians includes nothing about sending troops to aid in a war, but we feel we must show Deltaria that we support them. Their infantry is poorly equipped; a guerrilla war may drag on for many years, harming many law-abiding citizens of the nation. Our support will greatly help in removing the Libertarian Militia from the nation. And, as I have said before, merely announcing we will be sending military aid to the Deltarians will likely dissuade the Libertarian Militia from launching their invasion. PPP: I never said it was the only reason. Our nation's soldiers knew what they were getting into when they signed up. If it makes you feel any better, I will give all of our soldiers the option to not participate in this conflict. We will need only a small force to deal with the Libertarian Militia. This force will be selected only from those troops who are willing to go. |
| Date | 03:14:48, November 07, 2005 CET | From | Totalitarian Party | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | OOC: Arg, I just saw the post by the Deltarian Communists, saying it was actually a reactor meltdown. It was a nuclear strike, but they are apparently covering it up. I'll talk to the Deltarians later and find out what we know. |
| Date | 03:32:52, November 07, 2005 CET | From | Anarcho-Capitalist Front | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | If it is a situation of the Deltarian Army being poorly equipped, perhaps we can send equipment. It will establish our intention to honor our end of the Axis Agreement, while not sending our troops to a dangerous area over what should be situation that does not appear to be that troublesome. |
| Date | 08:44:46, November 07, 2005 CET | From | National Fascisti | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | OOC: Nuclear power plants located in the middle of forests? I guess I'll buy that. |
| Date | 09:11:11, November 07, 2005 CET | From | Bátory Dynastia | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | The BND of Deltaria is exceptionally pleased at this show of solidarity from Gaduridos. We are more than capable of handling the situation ourselves, but would greatly appreciate any small arms that could be donated or sold to the cause, as our army is still in the process of standardising its arsenel, and there are still less guns than men. Whilst our military spending is high, production unfortunately lags behind. This being said, any small contingent of Gaduri peacemaking troops or combat correspondants will be welcomed with open arms into the country, and we feel the training and experience they will recieve fighting alongside the Deltarians will far outweigh the minimal losses you might encounter in combat. Keep in mind that we are fighting only a small terrorist force, and the tactics we employ against guerrilla warfare are highly effecient. We fear only for our innocent civilians, who will obviously be the most viable target for the terrorists, as our armies will starve and burn the guerrillas out of any land they attempt to occupy. Whether Gaduridos decides to contribute to the anti-terrorist effort or not, we will still consider you a valued ally, as you are under no obligation to send troops to the aid of Deltaria ; especially considering the threat we face is minor and will be dealt with quickly. Grófka Albeta Bátoriová-Nádadyová Foreign Official #1 Bátory-Nádady Dynastia Dynastic Oligarchy of Deltaria OOC ; It was indeed a decisive nuclear strike against Communist terrorists. The new CPD Leadership is absolving itself from the entire matter in deference to the aristocracy and papacy of Deltaria. |
| Date | 19:16:53, November 07, 2005 CET | From | People's Progressive Party | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | If there was a consideration for people in any of this, the government would have never used a nuclear device much less on its own land and people. The fallout from such a device will affect the population and the soldiers fighting there for a long time. This party is opposed to sending troops and even weapons at this point. By the way, where is the Libertarian Militia going to get its grand army from? They're a political party in a democracy so what money and resources or even ideological strength are they drawing actual scores of troops from? Hopefully their government will be smart enough to prevent them from engaging in international terrorism. |
| Date | 19:40:18, November 07, 2005 CET | From | Anarcho-Capitalist Front | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | While I do not agree with the actions of the Deltarian government, I do respect their status as a soverieng nation. Because of this I do not wish to judge Deltaria in the way the handle domestic affairs, in hopes that they will afford us the same. Once we distance ourselves with the way in which Deltaria conducts its own business, we have no further reason to back away from the friendship we established with the Axis Agreement. |
| Date | 20:08:19, November 07, 2005 CET | From | People's Progressive Party | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | The Consul has articulated a good position which this party is inclined to agree with. Yes, Deltaria is free to handle its domestic affairs in whatever way they wish, just as we have a right to do with our own nation, I was simply sharing an opinion. Either way, I don't think the matter is worth us mobilizing over. Yes we should honor the treaty, but mobilization is unnecessary. Secondly, the government of the nation that houses the Libertarian Militia needs to do something about one of their native political parties openly wishing to engage in international terrorism. |
| Date | 23:34:52, November 07, 2005 CET | From | International Society of Bankers | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | The Lodamun Minister of Justice has stated that they would not prosecute military action from an Independent body. We are four thousand strong and have the funds neccesary to launch this assualt, as we are the third largest party and supplying four thousand men is not that expensive. We have given fair warning to the Deltarian despotism to step down, and have even released some of our plans. We believe this is a just move in order to free the people of Deltaria from this tyranny. Support from the nation of Gaduridos would be a setback, but we are determinded to carry out this mission of justice. George Miestran Philosopher of the Militia |
| Date | 03:42:24, November 08, 2005 CET | From | Totalitarian Party | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | The bill has been changed to reflect the opinions of this legislature. All agreed? |
| Date | 05:04:02, November 08, 2005 CET | From | People's Progressive Party | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | Given the fact that our party would've opposed the Axis Agreement, we are essentially opposed to any interference in the Deltarian civil unrest. What exactly makes the government of Deltaria such a worthy ally if they so freely use a nuclear weapon even on their own soil? |
| Date | 08:18:12, November 08, 2005 CET | From | National Fascisti | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | What DOESN'T make the government of Deltaria such a worth ally if they so freely use a nuclear weapon even on their own soil? |
| Date | 08:48:10, November 08, 2005 CET | From | Totalitarian Party | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | The Deltarian government has the right to protect their citizens in whatever way they please, even if they feel an insurrection will be put down quicker and safer by using nuclear weapons. The Libertarian Militia will soon be conducting terrorist attacks against the Deltarian people. The Totalitarian Party feels the poorly-equipped Deltarian infantry divisions may have difficulty driving out the terrorists who are planning to invade, and protecting the citizens of Deltaria. Providing equipment for the army will help them protect their citizens, and enhance our relationship with the Deltarians. PPP: Argument for ratifying the Axis Agreement: http://82.238.75.178:8085/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=26375 Your vote likely would not have affected the ratification, but if you want to attempt to withdraw from the treaty, you only need to convince half of the legislature that it's bad. Withdrawal is done by proposing a bill, going to the add proposal screen, and selecting "Treaty Withdrawal" from the drop-down menu box. |
| Date | 18:48:02, November 08, 2005 CET | From | People's Progressive Party | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | I find the quote, "What DOESN'T make the government of Deltaria such a worth ally if they so freely use a nuclear weapon even on their own soil?" by the Deputy from the National Fascisti very interesting. Let's hope those words do not have to be taken back when they freely put a nuke in our backyard despite having signed a treaty. Deltaria's actions aren't exactly those of the most stable nation. Besides, how could they have equipment shortages when they've got nukes to blow up forests with? Frankly, Lodamun is the nation acting criminally and irresponsibly here by not stopping their own citizens in the Libertarian Militia from engaging in terrorism. I agree with letting the Deltarians do with their nation as they please, but I can still share my party's opinion on it. If you support the treaty, thats fine, this is a democracy. As to what effect our vote would've had on the Axis Treaty, it doesn't matter, since we are a party that prides itself on sticking to our principles. |
| Date | 06:41:05, November 09, 2005 CET | From | Totalitarian Party | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | Deltaria has nuclear weapons but not rifles because their military leaders neglect the infantry divisions. Deltaria has an advanced air force; a modern, but under-funded navy; and an incredibly large infantry force that lacks basic equipment that our nation's soldiers take for granted. While they may seem savage when compared with our nation, they will honour the treaty; especially if we show we can be a valued ally. They would not hesitate to aid us if we were in a similar situation, and they had the ability to provide aid. The Totalitarian Party feels the treaty with Deltaria will cause any hostile nation to rethink any plans to attack us. The Libertarian Militia has recently received support from another Lodamese party[1]. Other offers of assistance may come from other terrorists. We feel this must be passed now to ensure our Deltarian friends are prepared for the coming attacks. [1] http://www.takeforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=43423&mforum=particracy#43423 |
| Date | 18:48:04, November 09, 2005 CET | From | People's Progressive Party | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | It might be more responsible on our part as allies to pressure Lodamun to not allow their citizens to engage in terrorism because that could wind up making the Deltarians rationalize using a nuke on them. |
| Date | 18:48:38, November 09, 2005 CET | From | People's Progressive Party | To | Debating the Military Aid for Deltaria |
| Message | In general though, I'd rather avoid interference altogether at this point. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 326 | |||||
| no | Total Seats: 93 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
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