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Bill: Freedom Act
Details
Submitted by[?]: Libertarian Party of Darnussia
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: August 2963
Description[?]:
| Please present to me a logical argument as to why you think it necessary, in even in times of war, to require citizens to serve in the military. Is our military not already well manned with volunteers? For what purpose could you possibly want to force more people to join? The only answer I can really come up with is for mass foreign intervention campaigns, nation building, and in an attempt to police other nations into what we consider "right". In what way do any of these things benefit the people of darnussia? Better yet, in what way do any of these things benefit the nations that we would be occupying? They answer is that in long run and almost all cases the short run as well, they do NOT benefit the afformentioned peoples. Unless of course you can give me another reason for conscription ... |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change National service.
Old value:: All adults upon completion of schooling can be required in times of war to serve a term in the military.
Current: All adults upon completion of schooling must serve a term in the military.
Proposed: There shall be no mandatory military or civilian national service.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 02:51:08, July 03, 2010 CET | From | Rerum Novarum Party | To | Debating the Freedom Act |
| Message | OOC: Poland hasn't exactly been big on instigating wars with it's neighbours, however, with belligerent neighbours conscription can be necessary for the protection of liberty. Give a little, gain a lot. Conscription is not supposed to be an easy thing to drop on a nation. |
| Date | 07:46:20, July 03, 2010 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Freedom Act |
| Message | I am not knowledgeable on Poland's situation, but I know that you still haven't given me any proof that conscription is what protects their liberty. |
| Date | 00:43:52, July 04, 2010 CET | From | Paleofederalist Party | To | Debating the Freedom Act |
| Message | Conscription is a tool in which the government can assist the military in times where the safety of the nation is at risk. It helps to ensure that foreign invaders stay as far away from our citizens as possible. OOC: Canada won both world wars because of conscription (during war time, and only after it was deemed neccessary to enlist more men in order to win). Canada did not use conscription in any of its nation building operations. |
| Date | 05:27:43, July 04, 2010 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Freedom Act |
| Message | The two world wars largely had little to do with defending Canada itself; they had to do with foriegn intervention. If foriegn invaders try to do anything to the nation our citizens have first, the freedom to keep and bear firearms to defend themselves, and secondly they have the current volunteer armed forces completely sustained without the use of conscription, of which I can see no reason for any lackig in manpower; the volunteers that make it up are enough. |
| Date | 05:31:00, July 04, 2010 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Freedom Act |
| Message | And I don't think it would be completely irrational to say that a nation where the state does not force people to join it's military is likely to have a larger volunteer force, especially if the nation of the state has a strong tradition of democracy upon which many of the people of the nation likely place some kind fictitious value which would motivate them to join the military in order to defend it. |
| Date | 05:34:23, July 04, 2010 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Freedom Act |
| Message | and Canada won world war 2 because the United States decided to join the fight in 1944 |
| Date | 05:35:01, July 04, 2010 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Freedom Act |
| Message | it really had little to do with the fact that the canadian government "used conscription". |
| Date | 17:17:22, July 04, 2010 CET | From | Rerum Novarum Party | To | Debating the Freedom Act |
| Message | So WWII was won, not through Canadian's being conscripted, but American's being taken up by the draft? Also, the US didn't do that much for WWII (the real version) insomuch as they fought the Pacific War (WWII:After the Fact); the Russians were waiting for the American's in Germany. |
| Date | 22:10:20, July 04, 2010 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Freedom Act |
| Message | The usage of the draft by the United States government is besides the point. I don't think that the allies would not have won the war if the draft was not used. The US didn't do that much for ww2 except cause it to be won by the allies ... the fact that they didn't join until 1944 does not change the fact that they had the largest impact. |
| Date | 22:12:14, July 04, 2010 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Freedom Act |
| Message | and I didn't even say that I necessarily support the actions of the United States during ww2; I was just pointing out that the allies success had nothing to do with the canadian government using conscription. |
| Date | 04:30:37, July 05, 2010 CET | From | Paleofederalist Party | To | Debating the Freedom Act |
| Message | You are overlooking the tactical advantages made by Canadians during both world wars. In WW1, conscription was used becaase the french-Canadians were unwilling to go to war. Because of conscription, vital battles such as the breaking of the Drocourt-Queant Line were achieved, largely in part by Montreal units that were understrength before the draft. This task was attempted by other armies, but it took the Canadians to get the job done. During peace-time, conscription is not neccessary because, as you say, volunteers get the job done. Even in small wars or missions, we do not need the draft. However, when our men and women in uniform are running out of the resources needed to defend our nation, extra measures must be taken. |
| Date | 04:47:47, July 05, 2010 CET | From | Rerum Novarum Party | To | Debating the Freedom Act |
| Message | Listen and try (try) to understand. We're not going to debate who did more in WWII. But the fact is this, that whether it be the Canadians, British, Americans or Russians. The thing is, it was used as a necessary act (one diminishing liberty), for a much more significant act (being able to achieve liberty again; unless of course you'd believe the world'd be better under the rule of Nazi Germany). |
| Date | 05:16:34, July 05, 2010 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Freedom Act |
| Message | The invasion of europe by allied forces is a situation where my opinion on it is undecided. I probably lean towards supporting it, because like you said the world probably woudn't be that great under the rule of Nazi Germany. I do not believe, however, that it coudn't have been accomplished without the use of conscription. It may have been a little more complicated, but I don't think it would unachievable (the liberation of europe from nazi germany) |
| Date | 05:17:25, July 05, 2010 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Freedom Act |
| Message | I could be wrong, hence the reason my opinion is not concrete on this issue. (using the draft in a situation like ww2) |
| Date | 05:18:01, July 05, 2010 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Freedom Act |
| Message | but until it is concrete, I will favor the position that supports the freedom of the individual. |
| Date | 07:41:58, August 23, 2010 CET | From | Libertarian Party of Darnussia | To | Debating the Freedom Act |
| Message | And if it wasn't the terrible actions taken by many western nations, particularily the United States, during ww1, ww2 would likely have never have happened as it did if at all. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 70 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 106 | |||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 39 |
| Random fact: Real-life organisations should not be referenced in Particracy, unless they are simple and generic (eg. "National Organisation for Women" is allowed). |
| Random quote: "The true destiny of America is religious, not political: it is spiritual, not physical." - Alvin R. Dyer |