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Bill: Strengthing the Leviathan II: Noocratic Bill IX
Details
Submitted by[?]: Noocratic Movement
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: December 3018
Description[?]:
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Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The right to euthanasia.
Old value:: Euthanasia is only allowed with consent from the patient and a court order.
Current: Euthanasia is illegal and considered murder.
Proposed: Euthanasia is illegal and considered murder.
Article 2
Proposal[?] to change Train Operating Companies (TOC).
Old value:: There is a single publicly owned TOC.
Current: The State owns and operates a national TOC, alongside private TOCs.
Proposed: The State owns and operates a national TOC, alongside private TOCs.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 18:03:43, October 17, 2010 CET | From | Noocratic Movement | To | Debating the Strengthing the Leviathan II: Noocratic Bill IX |
| Message | please comment |
| Date | 18:29:06, October 17, 2010 CET | From | Democratic Dictatorship Party | To | Debating the Strengthing the Leviathan II: Noocratic Bill IX |
| Message | 1) Separation of church and state is important. Religion has no place in schools. 2) What is the point of banning it but not considering it murder? It would just lead to many illegal euthanasias. We believe that the government has no place in someones private life and people should be able to choose for themselves. 3) We are in favor of this proposal |
| Date | 04:16:44, October 18, 2010 CET | From | Noocratic Movement | To | Debating the Strengthing the Leviathan II: Noocratic Bill IX |
| Message | we are willing to make euthanasia murder and repeal art. 2 |
| Date | 04:24:17, October 18, 2010 CET | From | Noocratic Movement | To | Debating the Strengthing the Leviathan II: Noocratic Bill IX |
| Message | im sorry, but you said you support civil liberties, correct? Does this mean you support suicide? hate crime? cultists? rebellions? If so, I think our president's ethics should be taken into question... |
| Date | 14:27:13, October 18, 2010 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the Strengthing the Leviathan II: Noocratic Bill IX |
| Message | We do not support either of the remaining articles for the following reasons: 1) Euthansia, so long as it is agreed by the person to be euthanised, is perfectly acceptable. It is the choice of the individual to do with their body what they like so long as it causes no direct harm to those around them. To consider it murder would seem foolish in the extreme as the person has chosen that course of action. Additionally, the current law requires that euthanasia be carried out by a doctor and a court order so as to provide protection to those of mental impairment. 2) Whilst a wonderful theory to allow private TOC's to operate the question has to be raised "on whose lines do they operate?" If they are operating on Hobrazian Railways (HR) lines then they are taking business away from the State operator, and thusly reducing the income of said operator, but if they are operating on their own lines who pays for them? Railways do not make a profit, and passenger operations especially are vulnerable to being loss makers. It is for this reason than well funded passenger operations are generally provided by the State. Those operated by the Private sector tend to receive high levels of State assistance whilst also charging high ticket prices. If we allow private TOC's to operate alongside the State operations they can, and will, pick and choose which operations they wish to operate leaving the State operator to fill in the gaps of those services that make little or no money without the support of operating services where money can be made. This would lead to HR requiring larger amounts of government support whilst providing no improvement in service to the fare paying passenger. A lose-lose situation if you will. |
| Date | 14:53:40, October 18, 2010 CET | From | Democratic Dictatorship Party | To | Debating the Strengthing the Leviathan II: Noocratic Bill IX |
| Message | "im sorry, but you said you support civil liberties, correct? Does this mean you support suicide? hate crime? cultists? rebellions? If so, I think our president's ethics should be taken into question..." I think you may have the wrong idea about what civil liberties mean. Civil liberties mean that an individual may do what he wishes as long as he doesn't harm anybody else. Suicide, euthanasia and other physical acts upon your self should be solely your own decision and the government should have no say in them. Hate crime does harm other people and extremely violent cultists harm other people too. Rebellions are a signal that something is wrong and ,while they should not be supported, the government should always try and resolve the situation. For these reasons I believe the president's ethics are not in question. Maybe the Noocratic's ethics should be put in question as their idea of right and wrong is purely subjective and autocratic. |
| Date | 18:39:36, October 18, 2010 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the Strengthing the Leviathan II: Noocratic Bill IX |
| Message | "Civil liberties mean that an individual may do what he wishes as long as he doesn't harm anybody else. " - in which case we would expect the DDP to be against smoking in public as this does long term harm to those surrounding the individual. |
| Date | 19:20:38, October 18, 2010 CET | From | Democratic Dictatorship Party | To | Debating the Strengthing the Leviathan II: Noocratic Bill IX |
| Message | As bad as second hand smoking is, smoking outside means effects from second hand smoking are insignificant. |
| Date | 00:12:08, October 19, 2010 CET | From | We Say So! Party | To | Debating the Strengthing the Leviathan II: Noocratic Bill IX |
| Message | Not accurate. Less harmful, perhaps, as there is a reduction in carcinagins, but hardly insignificant. |
| Date | 02:10:48, October 19, 2010 CET | From | Noocratic Movement | To | Debating the Strengthing the Leviathan II: Noocratic Bill IX |
| Message | We have two points concerning euthanasia: 1) it is assited suicide, the patient is being KILLED willingly by his doctor. THe patient could blow his brains out, but his doctor cannot 2) This person is indeed harming others. Family! |
| Date | 14:05:01, October 19, 2010 CET | From | Democratic Dictatorship Party | To | Debating the Strengthing the Leviathan II: Noocratic Bill IX |
| Message | "Not accurate. Less harmful, perhaps, as there is a reduction in carcinagins, but hardly insignificant." People that have complications related to passive smoking have a smoker in their family. It isn't caused by some poor bloke in the street smoking a cigarette. We have two points concerning euthanasia: 1) it is assited suicide, the patient is being KILLED willingly by his doctor. THe patient could blow his brains out, but his doctor cannot 2) This person is indeed harming others. Family! Death harms family and loved ones? Let's ban death. Anyway, I think you are confusing euthanasia with suicide. Euthanasia means ending the life of a suffering, terminal patient. Speeding the process by 6 months means giving a dying person the possibility of dying in peace. Family would have to cope with the grief no matter how he died. |
| Date | 21:05:11, October 19, 2010 CET | From | Noocratic Movement | To | Debating the Strengthing the Leviathan II: Noocratic Bill IX |
| Message | "Anyway, I think you are confusing euthanasia with suicide. Euthanasia means ending the life of a suffering, terminal patient. Speeding the process by 6 months means giving a dying person the possibility of dying in peace. Family would have to cope with the grief no matter how he died." Are doctors gods? Will they always be right a patient dies? I'm might die in 90 years, should I be euthanized? What if a person were to live 6 years, instead a predicted 6 months? Is that not murder? |
| Date | 21:48:05, October 19, 2010 CET | From | Democratic Dictatorship Party | To | Debating the Strengthing the Leviathan II: Noocratic Bill IX |
| Message | This whole, live 5 years longer than expected, looks great on tv, but it rarely happens. Some illnesses are terminal and painful. People should be able to decide of their own fate. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||
| yes |
Total Seats: 170 | ||
| no |
Total Seats: 230 | ||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Bill descriptions must be in English, or at least include a full English translation. Bill titles may appear in a language that is appropriate to the nation and are not required to be translated into English. |
| Random quote: "It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea." - Robert Anton Wilson |