We are working on a brand new version of the game! If you want to stay informed, read our blog and register for our mailing list.
Bill: Budget proposal of April 3282
Details
Submitted by[?]: Vereinigt Dorvik
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill proposes to change the allocation of funds in the budget. It requires more than half of the legislature to vote yes. This bill will pass as soon as the required yes votes are in, or will be defeated if unsufficient votes are reached on the deadline.
Voting deadline: September 3290
Description[?]:
| The Vereinigt Dorvik [VD] propose to adjust the government's spending budget to better address the economic and social situation of the Volksrepublik Dorvik. |
Proposals
Article 1
| Ministry | Current Budget | Old Budget | Propesed Budget |
| Head of Government | 15,000,000,000 DDO | 150,000 DDO | 1,500,000,000 DDO |
| Foreign Affairs | 18,000,000,000 DDO | 15,000,000,000 DDO | 3,000,000,000 DDO |
| Internal Affairs | 18,000,000,000 DDO | 40,000,000,000 DDO | 50,000,000,000 DDO |
| Finance | 10,000,000,000 DDO | 10,000,000,000 DDO | 1,500,000,000 DDO |
| Defence | 75,000,000,000 DDO | 45,000,000,000 DDO | 78,000,000,000 DDO |
| Justice | 10,000,000,000 DDO | 45,000,000,000 DDO | 2,000,000,000 DDO |
| Infrastructure and Transport | 10,000,000,000 DDO | 40,000,000,000 DDO | 40,000,000,000 DDO |
| Health and Social Services | 50,000,000,000 DDO | 90,000,000,000 DDO | 88,000,000,000 DDO |
| Education and Culture | 30,000,000,000 DDO | 90,000,000,000 DDO | 90,000,000,000 DDO |
| Science and Technology | 20,000,000,000 DDO | 40,000,000,000 DDO | 3,500,000,000 DDO |
| Food and Agriculture | 9,000,000,000 DDO | 25,000,000,000 DDO | 3,000,000,000 DDO |
| Environment and Tourism | 15,000,000,000 DDO | 25,000,000,000 DDO | 1,000,000,000 DDO |
| Trade and Industry | 15,000,000,000 DDO | 45,000,000,000 DDO | 5,000,000,000 DDO |
| Total | 295,000,000,000 DDO | 510,000,150,000 DDO | 366,500,000,000 DDO |
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 16:29:51, April 01, 2012 CET | From | Vereinigt Dorvik | To | Debating the Budget proposal of April 3282 |
| Message | Mr Speaker, Please find attached our first proposal for a new budget in Dorvik. As you can see Vereinigt Dorvik has identified substanstive areas for saving where previous governments have too readily accepted waste and mismanagement. We have cut spending to these areas and diverted new funds to areas that benefit from government support. |
| Date | 16:40:18, April 01, 2012 CET | From | Vereinigt Dorvik | To | Debating the Budget proposal of April 3282 |
| Message | OOC: These figures have been extrapolated from the US Federal Budget of 2012, with calculations based on an exchange rate of 1 Dolgar to 3 US Dollars. Other adjustments have been made on the basis that Dorvik is approximately somewhere in between 1/3 and 1/4 of the size of the United States of America. Please find the figures attributed to each department below if this was real world, United States. Head of Government: $13.5bn Foriegn Affairs: $27bn Internal Affairs: $450bn Finance: $13.5bn Defense: $702bn Justice: $18bn Infrastructure and Transport: $450bn Health and Social Services: $792bn Education and Culture: $810bn Science and Technology: $31.5bn Food and Agriculture: $27bn Environment and Tourism: $9bn Trade and Industry: $45bn |
| Date | 16:43:39, April 01, 2012 CET | From | Vereinigt Dorvik | To | Debating the Budget proposal of April 3282 |
| Message | Total: $3.294 trillion USD (approximate) As noted this is significantly larger than the US Federal Budget when taking into account the fact that these figures are calculated on a conservative 3:1 population basis. So there will be room, if nessasary, for further cuts in the future. |
| Date | 16:52:35, April 01, 2012 CET | From | Vereinigt Dorvik | To | Debating the Budget proposal of April 3282 |
| Message | In fact I wouldn't mind doing some further work on the budget before submitting a final revision if possible. If I could get some feedback on what I have done so far, and any adjustments you would like to see made. |
| Date | 18:06:26, April 01, 2012 CET | From | Radikalen für Dorvik | To | Debating the Budget proposal of April 3282 |
| Message | OOC: Why does the HOG get so many cash? What else is there to spend on with a HOG? |
| Date | 09:19:58, April 02, 2012 CET | From | Dorvische Partei | To | Debating the Budget proposal of April 3282 |
| Message | We must admit we are a tad surprised by these proposals. We are very concerned by the complete attacks upon state support for Science, Agriculture and Trade and Industry. Whilst we imagined cuts would occur, to be cut to between 1/8 and 1/10 of their original budgets is shocking. Also, whats up with the defence budget? In proposing an end to conscription we had hoped that would prevent cuts to the defence budget and allow its budget to be better spent. And yet an extra 33 Billion DDO's is to be spent! For what reason? Troop numbers are about to be cut, we are not going to war, we are not preparing for war. Please can the VD offer an explanation. Why has the limited support to the economy and future scientific research been so significantly attacked? |
| Date | 14:44:37, April 02, 2012 CET | From | Vereinigt Dorvik | To | Debating the Budget proposal of April 3282 |
| Message | DR, the HOG is more than just the Kanzler himself. It accounts for his salary, the salaries of his staff, offices, other departmental expenditures such as flights, catering, stationary, etc. I also thought it appropriate to include funding for a potential Secret Service as referred to in the News thread, if your party found it wanted. DP, it's worth reconsidering the value of the DDOs we are spending. Whilst preliminary figures seem to suggest that government spending of 33% odd percent is relatively low, my own figures suggest it is extremely high and I suspect that the figure has been arrived at by considering expenditure across both federal and state budgets. Since we operate a federal system in Dorvik, its worth rethinking that the federal government in Dorvik is enormous in comparison to real life equivilants. It seems to me that nobody has really sat down and done the math. For example: the US GDP is approximately $14.5T, with federal budget expenditure sitting at around $2.3T, US federal spending is approximately 15.86% of GDP. Dorvik's GDP is approximately 1.4T DDO and we propose a federal spending level of 366B DDO, meaning that our federal budget (as a percent) is larger than the United States at approximately 26.14%. I would suggest further spending cuts to come from Infrastructure and Transport, and possibly Education if everyone is happy to recognise a co-funding model between the states and federal budgets. |
| Date | 17:57:28, April 02, 2012 CET | From | Hosian-Konservative Allianz | To | Debating the Budget proposal of April 3282 |
| Message | OOC: Anywho, do not ever extrapolate to USD because that's not the currency the LOD is the base currency of Terra, which is based on the US Dollar (See what I did there?) If anything it should be based on the Dolgar to the LOD not USD seeing as the USD doesn't exist. Our revenue is 419,403,383,076 DDO, therefore we can spend up to about 400,000,000,000 DDO or a little bit more, the rest of the budget needs to be kept in case of emergency. The HoGs staff and the like was paid through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the 150,000 DDO was the personal salary of the HOG and included in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs was the HoSs pay, which was 150,000 DDO as well. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs having such a vast reduction would be accepting seeing as 3.0b DDO would clearly cover everything. The State Security Service would fall under the Ministry of Internal Affairs, not the HoG, therefore it would come from the budget of the MIA, not HoG. Therefore, we can increase the budgets of the final four without hesitation by nearly 5b DDO a piece. |
| Date | 22:07:21, April 02, 2012 CET | From | Dorvische Partei | To | Debating the Budget proposal of April 3282 |
| Message | VD, you have ignored the key points we raised. Why has the proposed defence budget been boosted by 73%? Why has Science and Technology been reduced by 92.5%? Why has the environment budget been reduced by 96%? Why has food and agriculture been reduced by 88%? Why has trade and insudtry been reduced by almost 89%? These are huge unexplained decreases that would mean these departments would cease to function. You draw comparisons to a system of federal governance, and yet looking through legislation in place there isn't much that is actually devolved to local bodies, even in terms of regulation. Is Dorvik a federal republic? (ooc: certainly not compared to the US, maybe more of a hybrid model like the UK?) We realise that we are now making this very difficult for you and no doubt will be causing frustration, but logically would it not be best to have applied sustainable cuts? Say 10-15% across departments, leading to a 10%-15% cut in govt spending? Rather than destroying the capability of SEVEN departments, and inexplicably increasing the defence budget without any need whatsoever. At the moment the DP will NOT back the proposed budget, although we applaud the VD for being the first party to propose a budget in over 40 years ( http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=336845 ) (ooc: Our deficit must be frigging huge.) |
| Date | 17:59:55, April 03, 2012 CET | From | Hosian-Konservative Allianz | To | Debating the Budget proposal of April 3282 |
| Message | OOC: I proposed a budget a long while ago, its actually still in the Debate/OOC area because the game finally got Economic protocols (which I refused to adopt because they are not entirely fixed yet.) also, the game has undergone certain revisions to the population thus greatly altering the budget and economies of nations. |
| Date | 06:07:52, April 04, 2012 CET | From | Vereinigt Dorvik | To | Debating the Budget proposal of April 3282 |
| Message | OOC: Will respond to this as soon as I get more time irl. :) |
| Date | 10:56:11, April 09, 2012 CET | From | Dorvische Partei | To | Debating the Budget proposal of April 3282 |
| Message | Roger that Victor Delta |
| Date | 07:47:05, April 17, 2012 CET | From | Vereinigt Dorvik | To | Debating the Budget proposal of April 3282 |
| Message | Mr Speaker, Vereinigt Dorvik proposes to submit this budget proposal in its present form to bring our federal fiscal position to surplus as soon as possible. We acknowledge opposition from the Dorvische Partei on these matters and hope that they will choose to back a fiscally responsible position. To respond to some of their concerns, we find that the size of these Departments far exceed what is nessasary for these departments to function as well as provide the necessary services to Dorvik. We have also proposed a lifting of the Defense budget as it is important that Dorvik shines as a bastion of democracy and security across the continent, especially with our renewed committment via the AU. |
| Date | 07:49:58, April 17, 2012 CET | From | Vereinigt Dorvik | To | Debating the Budget proposal of April 3282 |
| Message | OOC: I realise I haven't made any adjustments according to what has been written according to some feedback from Farsun. Please consider this an interm proposal and then we can refine at a later date. |
subscribe to this discussion - unsubscribe
Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 152 | ||||
| no | Total Seats: 0 | ||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 348 |
| Random fact: If your "Bills under debate" section is cluttered up with old bills created by inactive parties, report them for deletion on the Bill Clearouts Requests thread: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4363 |
| Random quote: "I worked at a factory owned by Germans, at coal pits owned by Frenchmen, and at a chemical plant owned by Belgians. There I discovered something about capitalists. They are all alike, whatever the nationality. All they wanted from me was the most work for the least money that kept me alive. So I became a communist." - Nikita Khrushchev |