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Bill: Proper Justice for Serious Crimes
Details
Submitted by[?]: AM Radical Libertarian Party
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: September 3301
Description[?]:
| There are some crimes that call for the most extreme punishments. Certain murders, especially those for hire; predatory rapes, especially against children, actions of this sort should be punishable by the most extreme sanction, that of death. Therefore, we propose reestablishing capital punishment with the proper controls to ensure that only those truly evil will receive it. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Government policy with respect to the death penalty.
Old value:: The death penalty is not applied, except for terrorism, treason and crimes against mankind.
Current: The death penalty is not applied, except for terrorism, treason and crimes against mankind.
Proposed: The death penalty is applied for capital crimes.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 17:23:01, May 03, 2012 CET | From | Nacionālistu Tautas Partija Likatonija | To | Debating the Proper Justice for Serious Crimes |
| Message | "We can not agree to this. At least with wrongful imprisonment there is the prospect of release and compensation. If you execute an innocent you cannot give them back their life. If even one innocent individual is killed by the state then our entire society is debased and rendered morally bankrupt. Furthermore there is no appreciable deterrent effect to the death penalty with regards to the crimes you mention. The NTPL would regard it to be a much better state of affairs if we tried to address the underlying causes of these crimes, rather than simply and barbarically disposing of those found guilty of them." - Emanuel Klausen, Kancleri |
| Date | 18:26:33, May 03, 2012 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the Proper Justice for Serious Crimes |
| Message | "Incorrect on at least one point - a death penalty has at least one guaranteed deterrent effect. No person that is executed ever re-offends." --Avrum Herrmann, Justice Office, April 3298. |
| Date | 19:17:24, May 03, 2012 CET | From | Nacionālistu Tautas Partija Likatonija | To | Debating the Proper Justice for Serious Crimes |
| Message | "It appears that illiteracy is rampant within the AMSR. Reducing recidivism and deterrence are not the same thing. A deterrent is supposed to dissuade others from similar crimes." - Tõnis Astrauckas, Minister of Internal Affairs |
| Date | 19:21:13, May 03, 2012 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the Proper Justice for Serious Crimes |
| Message | "Executing someone certainly deters them". --Avrum Herrmann. |
| Date | 20:33:24, May 03, 2012 CET | From | Nacionālistu Tautas Partija Likatonija | To | Debating the Proper Justice for Serious Crimes |
| Message | "Dead people can't be deterred, as, being dead, they posses no agency whatsoever. Tell me, are all members of the AMSR as monstrously idiotic as yourself?" |
| Date | 21:12:36, May 03, 2012 CET | From | AM Radical Libertarian Party | To | Debating the Proper Justice for Serious Crimes |
| Message | It is the position of AM RLP that some crimes are so horrific that they demand the ultimate punishment. We never mentioned the deterrance arguement in this proposal as the data on deterrant effect of capital punishment is unclear at best. It is effective, as was pointed out, at reducing recidivism, which is a good thing as well. As to the execution of an innocent, that is why we would insist on proper controls, for example, a special tribunal to review all capital cases before execution to insure that there is no reasonable doubt as to the guilt of the party. Should they find any, the sentance would automatically be ammended to life without parole. |
| Date | 22:13:39, May 03, 2012 CET | From | Nacionālistu Tautas Partija Likatonija | To | Debating the Proper Justice for Serious Crimes |
| Message | "No matter what controls you try and implement, it is a fact of life that, due to human error, misjudgements and so on, individuals will still end up being wrongly convicted. Further to that, it sometimes takes a significant period of time for the truth to reveal itself, or to be revealed. There is always the potential for new evidence to be found, or for new witnesses to come forward. You cannot put a time limit on justice. You could feasibly end up reviewing a case, deeming there to be no reasonable doubt, execute the individual, before finding out a few years down the line that they were entirely innocent all along. I don't want such things on my conscience; I'd rather not take such chances." |
| Date | 01:54:14, May 04, 2012 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the Proper Justice for Serious Crimes |
| Message | "Every day in Likatonia, people that have already committed horrible crimes, commit more horrible crimes. Some of them are thieves. Some are rapists. Some are murderers. Worse - some of them already served time, and were released back into the general population, where they proceeded to re-offend. The NTPL are worried we might accidentally execute an innocent person. Our response is that EVERY TIME we release someone into the public, and that person kills someone - we 'executed an innocent person'. That blood is on our collective hands. We'd rather risk harming one innocent with as many safeguards as we can manage... than be complicit in recidivist rape and murder." --Avrum Herrmann, June 3298 |
| Date | 02:12:17, May 04, 2012 CET | From | Nacionālistu Tautas Partija Likatonija | To | Debating the Proper Justice for Serious Crimes |
| Message | "If someone commits such a serious crime then they would be given a life sentence, meaning that your insinuation, that we somehow advocate releasing rapists and murderers back into the public willy nilly, is utter nonsense. The point was about the infeasibility of ensuring that only the truly guilty were eliminated. The judicial process is far from infallible and is likely to result in wrongful convictions, as indeed it invariably does. Furthermore, even if you are certain of someone's guilt I fail to see the point in murdering them just for the sake of it. It serves no purpose whatsoever when you can imprison them and study them; giving you a chance of understanding the causes of such crimes and a better chance of preventing future offences. We understand of course that the AMSR is only interested in bloody minded vengeance and can't possibly listen to reason." - Tõnis Astrauckas, Minister of Internal Affairs OOC: As if the NTPL didn't execute hundreds of thousands in its wars and campaigns of genocide, not to mention the execution of the Keymon president. Hypocrisy, eh? ;-) |
| Date | 02:18:37, May 04, 2012 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the Proper Justice for Serious Crimes |
| Message | OOC: Nothing wrong with a bit of hypocrisy, we ARE playing politicians, after all. :) "Ah, the NTPL mistakes out intent. We have absolutely no interest in vengeance, at all. We believe 'punishment' is a weak concept, with little meaningful application. No, we believe in prevention. We believe in educating people not to commit crimes. We believe in putting mechanisms in place that stop criminals from completing their actions, and - when all else fails - we believe in absolutely preventing people who have ALREADY committed crimes, from doing so again." --Avrum Herrmann, June 3298 |
| Date | 02:25:17, May 04, 2012 CET | From | Nacionālistu Tautas Partija Likatonija | To | Debating the Proper Justice for Serious Crimes |
| Message | "Perhaps the AMSR are more reasonable than we imagined after all!" |
| Date | 02:31:33, May 04, 2012 CET | From | Commonwealth Workers Army | To | Debating the Proper Justice for Serious Crimes |
| Message | "We have our moments. We're not at all comfortable with unnecessary violence. Of course, we're all over the concept of NECESSARY violence." --Avrum Herrmann, June 3298 |
| Date | 03:00:19, May 04, 2012 CET | From | AM Radical Libertarian Party | To | Debating the Proper Justice for Serious Crimes |
| Message | The AM RLP comes to the same destination by a different road. To ask the people of Likatonia to support a parasitical class who have committed grave crimes against these same people is unjust and unacceptable ( I refer to the criminals, not the politicians, of course). Therefore, to remove them from society is no different than shooting a rabid dog. Society is better off and safer, and at less cost than maintaining them. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||
| yes | Total Seats: 185 | ||
| no | Total Seats: 0 | ||
| abstain | Total Seats: 116 |
| Random fact: Players should not role-play characters without the consent of the owner, and if they find they have role-played the character beyond what the owner intended, they should withdraw or amend the role-play appropriately. |
| Random quote: "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun... our principle is to have the Party control the gun and never allow the gun to control the Party." - Mao Zedong |