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Bill: Federal Housing Act - 3299

Details

Submitted by[?]: Beluz Democratic Karavist Party

Status[?]: passed

Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.

Voting deadline: November 3299

Description[?]:

One flat out law will please 15-20% of the population, and leave the rest pissed off.

Proposals

Debate

These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:

Date13:46:59, May 05, 2012 CET
FromPatterson House
ToDebating the Federal Housing Act - 3299
MessageLow income famalies will have a harder time affording houses than those making more money than them.

Date13:50:10, May 05, 2012 CET
From Beluz Democratic Karavist Party
ToDebating the Federal Housing Act - 3299
MessageThat's your policy? Okay, nice to hear that's what will happen in Negunia.

Iker Ado will still provide public housing to low-income families.
Bailon might provide public housing to everyone.

--

Stop assuming, that leaving something to local governments, is saying that the current law can't/won't exist.
Leaving things, to local governments, allows any law to be possible, as long as the people, in a region, support it.

Date13:58:40, May 05, 2012 CET
FromStanton House
ToDebating the Federal Housing Act - 3299
MessageLaw; all local government poprover house for pepole on a low incomw but how fair that go to help the rich is put do them

Date17:01:32, May 05, 2012 CET
FromWilliams Family
ToDebating the Federal Housing Act - 3299
Message"Everyone" doesn't need public housing. Sometimes, one government policy is better. Even if you want to have each with its own military, some matters are still best determined by nationwide law so as not to create too much social class disparity between regions.

And the Tory argument is unreadable as usual.

OOC: Dude...I'm convinced you're doing it on purpose now...your English can't be that bad after playing for two years. -.-"

Date23:06:23, May 05, 2012 CET
From Beluz Democratic Karavist Party
ToDebating the Federal Housing Act - 3299
MessageWe never said everyone will get public housing; we said that can be the law, to disprove the whole crappy idea of not having free housing anywhere.

Some places would prefer free housing everywhere, as opposed to some places who wouldn't want any free housing at all.

So you want crappy laws in your own parish; so you're going to force the entire federation to have the same? You want crappy laws in the federation; are you going to force every other nation to do the same?

Date23:22:04, May 05, 2012 CET
FromWilliams Family
ToDebating the Federal Housing Act - 3299
MessageNope - we want the RIGHT laws in our federation. Laws that guarantees low-income families a place to live despite any economic hardships they may encounter. Those who don't need public housing aren't forced into this. It simply provides for those who need it. I can't imagine why the Karav family would object to setting a national standard that provides for our low income citizens to always have somewhere to sleep while not affecting those who don't need the public service.

Tell me again how that's a crappy law.

Date23:24:49, May 05, 2012 CET
FromWilliams Family
ToDebating the Federal Housing Act - 3299
MessageAnd you can keep talking about how much autonomy you want - you won't get any support there from the Williams family when it comes to certain laws. With all due respect, we don't really care about the Karav family's opinion on the autonomy each region should have.

As with all such matters, the votes will speak for themselves.

Date23:33:32, May 05, 2012 CET
From Beluz Democratic Karavist Party
ToDebating the Federal Housing Act - 3299
MessageThe regions already had their autonomy; you're taking that away.

Imagine there are 4 stances the government may take; each stance will get circa 25% support on the federal level, and there will be no majority. You will please, at most, 35% of the citizens, leaving another 65% angry. It's better to leave things to local government, where persons can have a more direct say in what laws are in place.

Send a central government surveyor to piss off Iker Ado citizens, and see how quickly he's cremated. It might even happen before he dies.

Date23:37:57, May 05, 2012 CET
From Beluz Democratic Karavist Party
ToDebating the Federal Housing Act - 3299
MessageThe law used to be that the state owned all housing and all cars; we allowed freedom from that.

Some persons miss the state-housing, and that can be implemented in the necessary regions, like Bailon, where most of the land is state-owned and used for military places. The old capital is a field of high rises. The people would want state-housing. It's their choice.

If they don't, they'll vote against it. That's the point of allowing autonomy.

Date23:55:21, May 05, 2012 CET
FromWilliams Family
ToDebating the Federal Housing Act - 3299
MessageOh? And which 65 % would be angry? The ones who are wealthy and don't need public housing? They aren't forced to take it. The ones who need it because without it they can't manage their rent and other expenses? I doubt they'll mind... You can't let the entire population vote on whether or not a fraction of the population (those with low income) should have housing provided for them.

"Send a central government surveyor to piss off Iker Ado citizens, and see how quickly he's cremated. It might even happen before he dies." That's very interesting...maybe you should just try for complete independence then. Secede from Beluzia. It's either that or suck up what the central government says on certain issues. It's almost as if you want to start a civil war over providing free housing to poor citizens... The Williams family army will brutally crush anyone in Iker Ado who harms a central government official - military or civilian - with no mercy whatsoever.

Date00:46:02, May 06, 2012 CET
From Beluz Democratic Karavist Party
ToDebating the Federal Housing Act - 3299
MessageOOC: Beluzia's population is mostly federalist, except in Negunia. Only Negunia likes central government. Beluzia is a federation of smaller nations, not a nation itself.

Date03:20:54, May 06, 2012 CET
From Beluz Democratic Karavist Party
ToDebating the Federal Housing Act - 3299
MessageWe never said 35% would be happy and 65% would be angry; we said that in a policy where there are 4 variables, at most, 35% would be satisfied, and at least 65% wouldn't be satisfied. That was an example of why we are federalist.

Housing has 5 variables, in addition to leaving things to local government. Here is the last poll done on housing: http://classic.particracy.net/viewnews.php?newsid=237053&nation=9

23.07% The State owns and maintains all housing.
22.85% Housing policy is to be determined by local governments.
20.88% All housing is privately-owned.
18.33% The State provides public housing to low-income families.
14.87% The State contracts with private companies to provide public housing.
0.00% All housing is private but rent is subsidised for low-income households.

You jumped to make wild assumptions that the angry persons would be the ones who wouldn't need public housing. Only 20.88% of persons would want all housing to be private.
You're going to set a law, that only 18.33% of people agree with.
If the matter is left to local governments, 22.85% of persons would be satisfied already. The rest of citizens would have their direct say in their own regions. In Bailon, persons are likely to vote housing as a government responsibility. In Negunia, persons are likely to vote that all housing be private.

Autonomy, and allowing people direct vote in their respective regions, allows flexibility. One flat law would satisfy a majority of the people in 1 region, and extremely small minorities in other regions. Allowing local governments to handle issues would satisfy the majority of each region. We do not set everything to local government. Healthcare policy, for example, is handled by the federal government. "There is a free public health care system and a small number of private clinics, which are heavily regulated to ensure they treat their patients well and provide good care" as opposed to having "Local governments decide about healthcare policies" as you would assume us to want.

Understand why we proposed this bill, and why we support it.
The Tory Party is one of the oldest parties, and the Stanton Family is one of the most prestigious and respected families. The Karav family can be traced back to Indrala, Kalistan, Egelion, and Beitenyu.
We have experience in these areas, and we urge you to consider our stance before jumping to assume why we take it. Try to understand us.

--

If the Williams Family's army is going to attack any civilians, for whatever reason, the federal military will intervene. That is the law. We can't say the same for government officials or soldiers.
Remember that your parishes have large coasts, and that we control 2 naval bases.

By the way, we still dominate the cabinet; how/why would a central government official come to Iker Ado against our orders?
If any parish should secede, it's Negunia; Bailon was already independent once, until the monarch of Bailon inherited the Beluzian throne, froming UKBB. Bailon could secede as well.
A key trade route passes through Iker Ado, entering feared nations like Darnussia and Luthori. Iker Ado also has the only port on the South coast. Beluzia's economy would dip if we secede.

Date04:23:29, May 06, 2012 CET
FromWilliams Family
ToDebating the Federal Housing Act - 3299
MessageI accept the Karav Family's view as valid (though not necessarily the best course of action for Beluzia on a whole) and understand their point of view but I'll keep my vote where it is for political reasons. I expect the Lligros will vote in favor anyway and the proposal will pass - but we'll see.

Date04:29:35, May 06, 2012 CET
From Beluz Democratic Karavist Party
ToDebating the Federal Housing Act - 3299
MessageStop doing everything "for political reasons" and actually think of the effect of your vote.
Count on your vote; no-one else's.

For you, it's all about power and pride, isn't it?

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Voting

Vote Seats
yes
   

Total Seats: 56

no
  

Total Seats: 43

abstain
 

Total Seats: 0


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