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Bill: Deltarian Act
Details
Submitted by[?]: Traxian Imperial Party
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: May 2152
Description[?]:
| We know that after the fiasco with Indrala you may not want us getting involved in international politics for a long time but hear us out. W seem to have an informal alliance with this country, after deep investigation of their government, legislation and extream religios atitude (please investigate for yourselves) and the growing news of civil war in the country and international tension is this really the sort of country we want to be involved with? We leave it to you but we have posted links and we are not saying war just saying lets not have an alliance or any sort of friendship with a state that is so different to our own. http://82.238.75.178:8085/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=35092 http://82.238.75.178:8085/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=35444 Also attention to Kalistan may be required who we are appently signing a peace treaty with. http://82.238.75.178:8085/particracy/main/viewnews.php http://www.takeforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2594&mforum=particracy We hope that our prior behavious will be redemed by bringing this to this governments attention. Marcus Trax Leader of the Trax Party |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 18:32:59, December 05, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Most worrying http://www.takeforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3811&mforum=particracy |
| Date | 21:33:48, December 05, 2005 CET | From | United Soviet Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | We agree with you Conspirator |
| Date | 03:11:56, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | We stand by Deltaria |
| Date | 07:56:44, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Not have an alliance with a state different than our own? I did not expect such prejudice and racism amongst our cabinet. How can you expect redemption while spouting such hatemongering ways?! These bills prove that two parties with no seats are somewhat aggressive. That - Is - All. Apart from that, a religious feud exists between Kalistan and Deltaria. This is not our business, nor does it get in the way of a political alliance. As long as Deltaria respects our ways and beliefs, then an alliance only works toward the betterment of both Our Great Nations. |
| Date | 07:57:35, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Progressive Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Now, I just don't see what's so bad about Deltaria, and abandoning allies is never something that will taken well on the international stage. This issue lacks a solid base to lead us to believe this is worth supporting. |
| Date | 09:33:29, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | I am not doing this out of racism or prejudice but have you seen their country looked at their laws? Education is banned, there is no health system, they are religious fanatics conducting inquisititons!! The people are called peasents and there is no freedom of information!! This is not hatemongering, by showing where we stand we are saying we are against this pppresive regime, and there is different and then DIFFERENT policies to our own. They are basically the oppoiste of us, what sort of image does that portray to the wider international community. What more solid a base do we ned than the persecution of an entire nation by a dictatorial state? I am not suggestion outright hostillity but how can we convinve ourselves these people aare our allies? I dont think we really can. In regards to Kalistan I only mention it as we are close neighbours and we should be forever watchful. |
| Date | 11:59:44, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | We are not the world's police force. As long as Deltaria stands by us in conflicts and provides open and favourable trade, then we have no reason to interfere. Our business is our own, just as their business is their own. Casting accusations or abandoning our allies will only make us look bad upon the international stage, as the PIP has stated, as well as possibly incite Deltaria against us. Neither of these options are favourable. |
| Date | 12:02:18, December 06, 2005 CET | From | People's Progressive Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | We don't need to have an obligation to Deltaria nor any nation in the world. |
| Date | 12:06:40, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | A mutually beneficial alliance grants favours in exchange for some obligations. That is oft the nature of an alliance. |
| Date | 13:57:37, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | The Deltarian issue has been kindly addressed. http://www.takeforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3811&mforum=particracy |
| Date | 14:07:08, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | This is madness, since when should we allow injustice to be practiced by a country we consider 'allies'. Have we no moral fibre, are we willing to ignore the plight of the people of Deltaria just so we can have an ally who is erratic and crazed? This will be my last statement on the matter and I despair for the state of our country if this is how we think of our international politics. The dabate will be closed Dec. 2152 Marcus Trax Leader of the Trax Party. |
| Date | 14:14:13, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Look at the votes, my friend. We talk of persecution, but by what yardstick do we measure the heart of the Deltarian people? That of Gaduridos? Nay, those parties that have implemented those bills that you deem so 'immoral', have been chosen as representatives of their people. Chosen with a resounding cacophony of affirmation. The people of Deltaria have let their beliefs be known through their own political system. Deltaria's leaders acknowledge the differences between our peoples and their own. Yes, the Gaduri are not quite as welcoming of such harsh justice... but that harsh justice is what the Deltarian people want; who are we to fault them? Do they fault us, because our own kindred desire a more permissive state without government intervention, even when you, my brothers, feel that this is not in our best interests?! Let our alliance hold. A mutual respect born of obligation and understanding. Unity for prosperity and prosperity for Gaduridos. |
| Date | 14:24:56, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Ok I lied that will not be my last post. The turnout for their elections were 17.51% of all the people eligible to vote. What does that tell you, the people have given up on democracy, where is the justice. The people were afraid to vote due to backlash, persecution, and the threat of inquistion. If that country was truely free they would allow the people to vote, by the leading parties keeping them in the medieval ages the country will forever remain. |
| Date | 14:31:42, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | http://82.238.75.178:8085/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=35444 The co-operation of these two countries, particularlly the extreamist parties, will destablisise the entire region. When the first shot is fired dont say I did not warn this government. |
| Date | 14:31:44, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | 'The people were afraid to vote due to backlash, persecution, and the threat of inquistion.' Hearsay and assumptions!!! If you wish to spout accusations and racist hatred, then take yourself out of this chamber! Proof is needed before such sickening and bigotted claims can be taken seriously. If people do not wish to vote, then they are allowed that privilege within Deltaria. It would be inhumane and indicative of persecution if people 'were', forced to vote, fearing backlash and the threat of the inquisition if they did not. |
| Date | 14:32:59, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | We must say, after your Indralan warmongering, this does not come as a surprise. Please, think before you speak... and have the will of our people and the future of Gaduridos at heart, before you go spouting such inflammatory and unproven accusations. |
| Date | 14:39:28, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Do you realise that the people are given no education, or health provisions. The people have no rights they are classed as peasents openly in the legisalation when refered to. A party who tries to bring about reform are declared heretics, that is not democracy. I say go into the Deltrian legislation and see for yourself how bad they treat their citizens. And i again state this is not about war this is about should we be allied with this country? I believe the answer is no. If they are truely democratic they will respect our wishes, and let us leave. We are not in any immediate miltary threat. If however they refuse or insist we dont leave or be declared enemies then I have proved my point. Is it that this government is afraid of Delteria. Better to be allied with the 'devil'? Is so I spit on this senate. |
| Date | 15:08:17, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Totalitarian Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | We stand by the Trax Party, although rather than opposing an alliance with them due to the conditions forced on the Deltarian citizens, we oppose it because we feel Deltaria has nothing to offer us. We should seek allies closer to our own nation. |
| Date | 15:19:40, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Bátory Dynastia | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Afraid of Deltaria? No, we can quite confidently state that the Gaduri Government is not afraid of Deltaria - it may be afraid of what abould happen to it in the absence of a Deltarian alliance, but certainly not from the hands of the Deltarians. Of course we shall allow you to leave the Axis, Gaduridos is not ; and never has been ; coerced or bullied into their voluntary joining of the Axis. If you choose to leave, so be it, we will thank you for the assistance you have given us in the past, and give you the blessings of Deltaria in whichever route of international diplomacy you wish to pursue. However ; we will revoke our policy of support and protection over Gaduridos. Left to the tender mercies of your numerous enemies ; the Indralans, the Kanjorans, the Lodamese.... all these nations will be lining up to take a piece of Gaduridos when the cloak of Deltarian protection is removed, and we will not do a thing to stop them. The 'threats' you make mention of come to you from foreign nations, not from Deltaria, and we are deeply hurt and saddened that you seem to take our longstanding friendship with you for granted. Deltaria was never obligated or expected to support Gaduri independance, yet we did, and yet now you turn around and accuse us of extortions, coercions, blackmails... Another interesting point is your constant badmouthing of the way we run our nation. Are we to be fettered by the morality those in the luxurious nation of Gaduri can maintain ; and only maintain because you've had such a comfortable and peaceful history. Deltaria has been a nation racked with war, racial tension, insurrections and purges since the time of the Great Landing, and these are so deeply ingrained in our national psyche that our measures ; those which you may find barbaric and draconian ; are the only things keeping us from plunging back into the anarchistic days of The Great Terror. Who are you to attempt to impose your subjective morals apon a country that is desperately trying to pull itself into the 22nd century, but cannot? Would you have us dissolve our government ; the only government to have brought stability and peace between the warring tribes for centuries? Now, as never before, the ethnic hatred between the Daralis, the Tokundians, the Doron Akigans, the Alizandians, the Ushulandans and the Dissuwans have abated. Now, more than ever, our people have found a common unifying belief, the love of their Absolvers and their Church. Who are you - from your seats of luxury and comfort ; to look down on the less fortunate, to demand we uphold ourselves to your tenets - tenets which might work in Gaduridos, but are wholly impossible to maintain within Deltaria. Have we ever once attempted to impose our policies on the nation of Gaduridos? What have we done to deserve such disrespect, such arrogance, such blatant racism and prejudice? In response to the Totalitarian Party, under the Axis Agreement Gaduridos and Deltaria have been ; for many years ; valuable trading partners. We send you the diamonds and oil and rubber and sugar you require to uphold your lives of decadant and indolance, whilst you send us the electronic equipment and technology we require to drag ourselves out of the agrarian age. Without Deltaria, what shall your pretty young women adorn themselves with? How shall your people flavour your meals with the sugar denied to so many Deltarians so that you don't have to taste the slight bitterness of what REAL people are forced to subsist on. What shall power the private cars and heating systems you take for granted, whilst the Deltarians go cold and hungry due to the favourable trade deals that your Government has obtained from us? Your citizens are weak and spoiled, and take for granted the luxuries Deltarians have never heard of. How shall they react when what they've always considered themselves to be deserving of is no longer attainable? Who else shall you get your luxuries and raw materials from? We spit in the faces of those in the Trax party, who ; in their ignorance, prejudice and arrogance ; are ignoring the very structure of our great nations relationship with each other. You disgust us. Grófka Albeta Bátoriová-Nádadyová Foriegn Minister of Deltaria Dynastic Oligarchy of Deltaria |
| Date | 15:28:39, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | That in all sounded like a threat to us. Of course we are free to leave, but if we do countries will attack us, all trade will be cut. Do they forget they need our trade. As for their reaction to this party, we do not need them however much they think we do. There are many trading nations out there, and many strong ones. As for their domestic policies even if their history is violent, that is no excuse for the restriction placed on thier citizens. How are their citizens supposed to go forward if they are not taught, or given health provisions? And they dare to call us decadent. |
| Date | 15:33:45, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Bátory Dynastia | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | A threat? Are you so arrogant as to assume the protection of Deltaria is something we're OBLIGED to give you, no matter how badly you treat us? We have just stated we will give you our blessings in whichever path you choose, but will no longer defend you in the case of international aggression towards your country, and you call that a threat? Do you perhaps thing that Gaduridos is entitled to Deltarian backing whenever it suits your purposes, but you can discard us whenever it doesn't? If you abandon your allies, you cannot expect them to come running to your aid when you need it. If this is a threat, then fine. We've threatened you. We've threatened not to treat you with the Godlike status you seem to think you're so deserving of. Also, we never threatened to cut trade, we simply outlined how beneficial it was to both our nations in response to the Totalitarian Party's concerns. |
| Date | 15:40:16, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Members of the Trax Party, the Bátory-Nádady Dynastia have addressed your concerns... yes, they are volatile; however, look at the squalor from which they come. Our Great Nation 'IS', comparitively decadent, as we are a rich people who are blessed with luxury and a government that has not had to struggle in many years. If you wish to find something wrong... if you desire to look hard for the negatives in something so subjective as a treaty, then you will find some. All that we ask is that you acknowledge 'objectively', the mutual benefits of an alliance between our people, and that you respect the Deltarian government and their own UNIQUE way of addressing their own UNIQUE situation. A situation, keep in mind, that our own affluent populace has never quite had to suffer through. What is inhumane to us, is natural to another. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. It is wrong to be so presumptuous as to judge one's own view as the yardstick by which to measure the world and all that it contains. |
| Date | 15:41:15, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Of course you did not official say trade will be cut, you just mentioned how beneficial it is and indicated it may not occur f the alliance is terminated. And we are not stating that Deltaria is obliged to anything. Its just the way you said That other countries will attack us without this alliance sounds like a threat on our nation is we do remove ourselves from it. Sort of like saying this is what will happen, when the future is always uncertain. I must applaud you though on your silver tounge. There is an old saying 'Politics is a double edged sword' You aptly demonstated this by keeping a civilised tone on things but hidden under those words IS a threat. Either way we still should leave the alliance as we do not need them, we can find other allies and other trading partners closer to our shores. And leave Deltaria to sort itself internally. |
| Date | 15:46:08, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Description[?]: We are of the Bátory-Nádady house. We bring pain and suffering to all. We are wretched, but we are strong. We will coat the face of the earth in burning lime, and bring naught but pain and sorrow to those who question our rule. 6:17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? The description of the Bátory-Nádady Dynastia and we are going to listen to them? |
| Date | 15:48:06, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Description[?]: We are of the Bátory-Nádady house. We bring pain and suffering to all. We are wretched, but we are strong. We will coat the face of the earth in burning lime, and bring naught but pain and sorrow to those who question our rule. 6:17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? The description of the Bátory-Nádady Dynastia and we are going to listen to them? |
| Date | 15:48:52, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | 'Its just the way you said That other countries will attack us without this alliance sounds like a threat on our nation is we do remove ourselves from it. Sort of like saying this is what will happen, when the future is always uncertain.' Other nations are not Deltaria... so how is this a threat? It is an acknowledgement of possibility based upon our own history and the conflicts that have occurred in the past, and it is simply stating that Deltaria will not be there to standby our side, as it would be under an alliance. As for your belief that we should just leave an alliance, the Deltarian position is... shall we say, very useful. A people willing to trade diamonds for electronics. Practicality verse Uniform wealth and value. The situation is win/win, considering the political climate. Why shoot ourselves in the proverbial foot? Furthermore, why limit our allies? Why is it that you wish to only allow those close to us to be our allies... is their some kind of fear that you show toward friendly relations with nations foreign to our continent? Is this some expression of xenophobia and prejudice that feels that the only allies that we should have are those nextdoor? Why not embrace all those who are willing to work together with us?! |
| Date | 15:53:43, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | So instead of enforcing your point that we 'do not need them'... a point that is untenable in the face of evidence, you have resorted to slander. You show an intolerance toward a party and its religious stance, in spite of such a stance never negatively affecting Our Great Nation. 'We bring pain and suffering to all.' And when has such been brought against us? We trade computers for diamonds... oil for the results of our medical research... where is the suffering inherent in this practise? Continue with your unfounded slander if you will, you're showing prime 'silver tongued', political slyness. |
| Date | 16:04:54, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | As are all politicians. We feel that Deltaria is too unstable to be in an alliance. And how does Deltaria know how other countries are going to behave towards us if we leave the Alliance. The basis of this debate is to decide whether we as representatives of the people can weigh our morals against the trade and defence advantages. And as trade can be sought with other nations, maybe not as lucrative as diamonds, that is void. As defence alliances can be sought with nations anywhere else in the world, that is void. So the decision comes down to do we want to move our country forward out of this alliance, or do we want to remain in one that is nothing special with a country that has different moral freedoms to our own. It is not prejudice that says this it is the fact that as a country how can our people understand our friendship with Deltaria when we are cultures that oppose one another. Yes it is important for greater understanding but pulling out of an alliance does not affect cultural attitudes. In replacement of the defensive alliance place a Cultural Information Exchange open to both people. So we can understand them, and they can underatnd us. And we can both learn from one another. |
| Date | 16:05:16, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | understand* |
| Date | 16:10:49, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Bátory Dynastia | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | The very nature of our country forces us to instil a degree of fear to our population. This might seem alien to you who so very comfortably lounge around in the cities of Gaduridos without the slightest fear that any minute your abodes may be riddled with bullets from warring gangs or militias, but in Deltaria it is an unfortunate necessity. Our image of unmitigated cruelty and brutality must be upheld at all costs in the eyes of the Deltarian populace, for it deters the criminality and hate crimes we once were unable to escape, and saves many innocent lives. For you ; in your high-rise condiminiums, with your air conditioning and your internet and your indoor swimming pools, to look down on Deltaria for being forced to do things you consider distasteful simply to prevent our entire country falling into anarchy and civil strife, is indeed arrogant, ignorant and hateful. And once again your argument falls down simply into attempting to bully a less fortunate country into adopting morals and policies more palatable to the ignorant and the blind of Gaduridos, despite the fact that they are quite simply impossible to be applied in our nation. When have we ever had anything but respect for the national sovereignty of Gaduridos, and why do you think you can dictate to us how our country should be run? |
| Date | 16:14:42, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Bátory Dynastia | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | "We feel that Deltaria is too unstable to be in an alliance. " So, one minute you are attacking the Deltarian policies that keep our nation stable, and attempting to support rebels and insurrections within our nation ; the next minute you are attacking us for not being stable enough to your liking? It seems you simply have an irrational hatred for our peoples, and are attempting to justify it on any platform you can find. And why do we feel this "Cultural Information Exchange" you have proposed will simply be another attempt for the xenophobic hatemongerers in the Trax party to attempt to impose their morals onto Deltaria? |
| Date | 16:16:08, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Please reference to the new Bill in this government entiltles Cultural Information Exchange. As such withdrawing from the alliance will be a step forward for both nations, we will move on into future relationships with other nations. And Deltaria will move on, as they can start to focus of making their own electronics and removing the gangs that threaten their country. |
| Date | 16:16:49, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | No instability has been shown toward Our Great Nation. In fact, the ruling parties of Deltaria have held sway for many terms in recent years, with no indication of waning. Alas, there are more pressing concerns... Our cultures do not oppose at all IF we respect the diversity between our Great Nations. In fact, no direct opposition has occurred, save your own attempts at interfering with Deltaria's politics. It appears that YOU have a personal vendetta against this nation that is severely affecting your decisions. http://82.238.75.178:8085/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=34735 http://82.238.75.178:8085/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=34819 You see, you acknowledge that our trade in diamonds is beneficial, especially considering the differing climates of our nations and the respective needs of each... yet you did not address my issue. That issue is 'Why limit our allies'? In fact, why skirt such a question, are we to believe that you DO have something to hide? That you ARE in fact xenophobic and DO have a personal vendetta against the Deltarian people? WHY LIMIT OUR ALLIES?! We should embrace all cultures who wish to defend the peoples of Our Great Nation and who desire to enter into beneficial trade that furthers the prosperity of our people. |
| Date | 16:36:13, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Our trade can be found elsewhere, simple as that. We can make new allies easilly enough. I am not a xenophobe I am just morally obligated to do what I think is right regardless if situations. There have been reforms in Deltaria that are perfectly reasonable yet they shout heresy and treason. It is not enough they defend us they should understand us as we should understand them. I will do what I beleive is morally right. Even if it weakens our position in the SHORT term, we will be content that we did the right thing. OOC: those instances are because I know the first party in reality and It was a bit of fun, this is now serious roleplay. So I wouldnt read into those too much. |
| Date | 16:37:04, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Bátory Dynastia | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | We fail to see the benefit for either nation if we end our longstanding policy of friendship. We see many downsides ; for both nations, but not a single benefit. |
| Date | 16:39:39, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | To Our Dearest Friends, Our Axis Brothers: The First Party has been condemned to death and many of their members are awaiting execution by the Holy Inquisition. The peasants that were convinced to "cast ballots" in their favor shall also be executed for heresy for voter fraud, as peasants are not allowed to vote. Rest assured, these trouble-makers are under control and are being dealt with in the most extreme and appropriate of ways. If anyone so desires, they may attend the executions of these heathen scum. Respectfully and Faithfull Yours, Grand Inquisitor Barón Vasili Stăpân They are executing voters just because they didn't vote the 'right' way. Cultural difference aside that is morally wrong and will be reported to various organisations. There is no excuse for that behavious even in an unstable country. There is no possible defence. |
| Date | 16:49:29, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | 'Our trade can be found elsewhere, simple as that. We can make new allies easilly enough. I am not a xenophobe I am just morally obligated to do what I think is right regardless if situations. There have been reforms in Deltaria that are perfectly reasonable yet they shout heresy and treason. It is not enough they defend us they should understand us as we should understand them. I will do what I beleive is morally right. Even if it weakens our position in the SHORT term, we will be content that we did the right thing.' Again, you failed to address my concern. YOU ARE HIDING FROM THE QUESTION! WHY LIMIT OUR ALLIES when we should embrace all cultures who wish to defend the peoples of Our Great Nation and who desire to enter into beneficial trade that furthers the prosperity of our people!?! Yes, trade CAN be found elsewhere, but as has been repeatedly stated, the political clime allows for a much discounted rate and an exchange which may be considered rather unfair to nations as developed as our own. Utilising this alliance has allowed us to gain fiscal favour in exchange for the practical trade of goods to the Deltarian people (Computers for diamonds, research for oil). This CANNOT be denied. We COULD trade elsewhere at a larger cost, however, unlike your party who believes that our government can liberally throw money at the sinkholes of other nations, we believe that financial efficiency will best serve Our Great Nation. We do not wish to bankrupt our people... nor should you, considering your beliefs toward the nationalising of industry. 'It is not enough they defend us they should understand us as we should understand them.' We can understand each other without mirroring one another's culture. They come from another contintent, yet your xenophobic and prejudicial nature has yet to grasp this concept. We should not measure the world by our moral laws and pass judgement on other nations IF those nations do NOTHING to harm us... especially IF those nations have ONLY helped us in the past and CONTINUE to do so in the present. You wish to abolish an alliance that has only yielded favourable results because of your own personal moral qualms and your prejudiced and judgemental nature. |
| Date | 16:59:27, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Set up an independant trade agreement then if money is more important to you than your moral code. So they come from another continent? In this day and age, travel is easy and fast the world is a small place and there are Universal Human Rights. Killing voters who vote for a reform party is not in them. They can rule how they like but there are limits, and education should be avaible and health care to their population, Iif they can't afford it give them aid. We are not limiting our allies, we can get NEW allies. If there is a military incident how many troops will they send without their country falling into civil war? We just believe a formal alliance is un warrented considering all the matters. We say we have to go by OUR morals as well as theirs, this is an alliance of TWO countries not one isn't it. They have said they will let us go from it, and wecan request a seperate trade agreement. Everyone will be happy. And my personal moral qualms should be any civilised peoples as well. Im sure the Deltarian government will one day introduce moral laws once the political situation is stable but WE cannot endorse what the are doing now, such as killing off voters. |
| Date | 17:02:55, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Bátory Dynastia | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | "They are executing voters just because they didn't vote the 'right' way. Cultural difference aside that is morally wrong and will be reported to various organisations. There is no excuse for that behavious even in an unstable country. There is no possible defence." You must be joking. Look who took the majority of the seats in the last Deltarian election. A non-aristocratic party, calling for a secular and liberated government. Did we ever once threaten them, or attempt to keep people from voting against them? No. But the Prva Strana are a different matter altogether. They have attempted several times to foster REVOLUTION in our country. We've come so far since the time of the Great Terror, and we cannot allow millions of lives to be lost just because of some discontents who ; in their ignorance ; wish to push Deltaria into a degree of liberalism we are simply not ready for. The Prva Strana went beyond simply inciting rebellions and insurrections in Deltaria, but ACTIVELY ATTEMPTED TO GAIN INTERNATIONAL SUPPORT TO OVERTHROW THE DELTARIAN GOVERNMENT. This has nothing to do with people voting 'the wrong way'. This has to do with people sympathising with a force that could quite possibly throw Deltaria's civil stability backwards several centuries. Now, what nation in the WORLD would allow this? Would you in Gaduridos allow a political party to solicit invasions from other nations? To attempt to bring civil war into your borders? The immediate condemnation and quelling of the Prva Strana is a neccessity that the very stability of our nation hinges on, and you have no right to judge us for dirtying our hands in a matter you will never EVER have to experience firsthand. Just because you are more fortunate than us does NOT make you superior to us, in any way, and although the things we are forced to do are distasteful, they are required, and the majority of the Deltarian serfs are thankful we have the fortitude to do them. We know your real reason for attempting to support the Deltarian rebels, and to think somebody could be so cruel and heartless for money and power alone sickens us to the very core. |
| Date | 17:10:02, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | 'Set up an independant trade agreement then if money is more important to you than your moral code.' Once more, your prejudice gets in the way. You are judging the world by your own miscrocosm beliefs. You make no allowance for difference and seem to believe that 'travel is easy'. What of the poor and destitute? Those nations who have people that starve... are planes and speedboats and other such modes of transport that YOU may be used to as plentiful or accessible to those people? How large is the world for small tribal villages in Majatra?! What of those people who know nothing outside of their own small hamlet community!? Are you to just sit there and deem them backward because your own life has been led differently... in a way that YOU deem more cultured and advanced?! This is how you treat Deltaria, a nation with customs and beliefs and a religion foreign to what YOU are used to. Once more you show your ignorance of the world around us. Not everyone is so blessed with the tools to travel the world. Different climates, different political settings, different weather and resources... DIFFERENT SOCIETIES! Yet YOU seem to preach a uniformity simply because the people of Our Great Nation are BLESSED with planes and boats and many other tools of modern transportation. YOU SICKEN ME! You sit here in Gaduridos, on your ivory throne and you pass judgement over those less fortunate than yourself. You preach answers to worlds that you have never even known... and I have nothing but contempt for you. 'We are not limiting our allies, we can get NEW allies.' Once more YOU FAIL to address what I said. We can get MORE allies. We DO NOT need to REPLACE Deltaria. In fact, if you WERE to replace Deltaria, who do you suggest?! You wish to cast off those who have been good to us, as I stated, because of your own judgemental nature, your own prejudices and your own xenophobia. You sicken me. |
| Date | 17:10:25, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Why kill them then? Why not exile them to another state?. Why not try and embrace change in one or two minor matters and see what happens? Because you delight in the power you have and do not wish to loose it. The only reason The First Party declared resistance was because your government was unwilling to listen to change, and freedom for your people. They tried to give them education and health and you responded 'WHY?' That is not the thinking of a forward government looking to leave civil war behind, but one who wants it to stay that way. |
| Date | 17:23:13, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | That is all the criticism you can level at the Deltarian speaker?! Again you preach your own morality as though it is international mandate. We would like to remind you that Gaduridos ITSELF applies the death penalty for capital crimes. http://82.238.75.178:8085/particracy/main/viewvariables.php?nationid=23 Such as for inciting Revolution and civil war, perhaps. You slowly backtrack as each of your issues is addressed. ADMIT IT! You have some personal vendetta against the Deltarian people and nothing that we say... no logic... not even the will of a divine God itself would change YOUR mind. You have chosen your stance. No matter what, you wish the DESTRUCTION of our alliance with Deltaria. You are an anarchist in disguise and a shame to our people, both at home and upon the International stage. |
| Date | 17:29:14, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | My moral code is not a small minded view. My lifestlye is not blessed, I came from a small town and prospered, I fought to do well, and founded this party. I am not a xenophobe and I admit I am judgemental,but at least that is better than cold-hearted. I feel pity for the people of Deltaria and for the government as they have a hard task. But the route they are taking, however different, means the people do not have a freedom common to this country and they should have the chance to do what I did and make a name for myself and stand for what I believe. I am sure their resoning is faultless but are there alternatives to keep their culture/country stable and move forward into the 23rd century which is only around the corner. If you think I am judgemental then understand I am a moral party, where the morals come first. And I will not apoligise for my morals. And I will not impose my morals on others just that my morals are that of my country and these clash, for the moment. with those of Deltaria and I cannot condone what they do. This is not about my lifestyle or the lifestyle of anybody, but the moral judgements made. I understand they may be required in Deltaria but I will not endorse them and as such feel the country should not. |
| Date | 17:30:38, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Just because Gaduridos has the death penalty does not mean i approve of it. |
| Date | 17:34:30, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | http://82.238.75.178:8085/particracy/main/viewbill.php?billid=35736 This shows they are persecuting the secular party as well. The exact opposite said in this discussion. |
| Date | 17:40:07, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Bátory Dynastia | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | "Why kill them then? Why not exile them to another state?". You yourself have proven that borders are no obstacle to fostering civil war and anarchy in Deltaria. The Deltarians are a harsh people, with brutal traditions, and concepts like 'exile' are so foreign to them that the mere institution would cause massive discontent and remove all confidence in the current Government. And THEN what would happen? 'They tried to give them education and health and you responded 'WHY?' That is not the thinking of a forward government looking to leave civil war behind, but one who wants it to stay that way.' We simply cannot afford to. You yourself have cast discrepencies on the economic strength of Deltaria, claiming that we could not provide adequate support to Gaduridos in times of war because of the vast number of troops needed to keep Deltaria stable, are you now suggesting we can downsize our military in favour of social services? With WHAT money? Why can't you just admit your entire argument is based on naught but petty prejudice and racial hatred, and there is not a single reason for Gaduridos to withdraw its support for Deltaria other than the fact that YOU personally hate our people? |
| Date | 17:42:12, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Bátory Dynastia | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | "This shows they are persecuting the secular party as well. The exact opposite said in this discussion." Note our response? We're voting 'no', and most likely the Communists and Totalitarians will vote no as well. |
| Date | 17:42:34, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | The people of Deltaria have chosen the parties they have chosen! Your so called 'First Party', ally, holds half as many seats as the Bátory-Nádady Dynastia... does that not tell you something?! You are imposing your own moral judgements upon their country; judgements cultivated from a life raised within Our Great Nation, a safe and prosperous country compared to the squalor of Deltaria (a state which they are trying to overcome and which our electronics and medical resarch are HELPING them overcome!). It amazes me that a 'moral party', such as yourself, would rather abandon the Deltarian people, forcing them to turn their attentions elsewhere and clamber for aid, even though they are surrounded by enemies. It amazes me that such a 'moral party', is so willing to cut off favourable trade for OUR OWN people, with only his own smallminded definition of morality as the rationale. Because you deem them immoral, you wish to IMPOSE your own definition of right upon them, in spite of the fact that this is NOT what they desire. As I was forced to state earlier: 'The people of Deltaria have let their beliefs be known through their own political system. Deltaria's leaders acknowledge the differences between our peoples and their own. Yes, the Gaduri are not quite as welcoming of such harsh justice... but that harsh justice is what the Deltarian people want; who are we to fault them? Do they fault us, because our own kindred desire a more permissive state without government intervention, even when you, my brothers, feel that this is not in our best interests?!' However, you are retreating to circular argument. You suggest alternative means of running their nation, yet the way that they are running it seems to be endorsed by their people (In addition to not SUGGESTING any alternative means). Additionally, what you deem an alternative may not even be applicable to their culture... in fact, it may not even be desired, and after looking at the First Party's 'power', in their cabinet, that appears to be the case. I have addressed a number of issues toward you which you have clumsily attempted to circumvent... let me reiterate: ''We are not limiting our allies, we can get NEW allies.' Once more YOU FAIL to address what I said. We can get MORE allies. We DO NOT need to REPLACE Deltaria. In fact, if you WERE to replace Deltaria, who do you suggest?! You wish to cast off those who have been good to us, as I stated, because of your own judgemental nature, your own prejudices and your own xenophobia.' The only honesty you have shown is the justification that this Bill is motivated by your own personal moral code... because it conflicts with that of the Deltarians. You have ADMITTED that this Bill is an act of personal vendetta. Such a subjective and knee-jerk reaction is both childish and politically dangerous. We hope that Our Great Nation's parties see sense and deny this Bill. |
| Date | 17:46:35, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Bátory Dynastia | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | "Just because Gaduridos has the death penalty does not mean i approve of it." Then why don't you deal with your OWN countries problems, as you see them ; before you condemn other nations for doing the same? |
| Date | 17:59:57, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Let us finalise our position. We do not say that their government is wrong given their conditions. My moral code obligates me to officialy condem their methods even if they are for the best. I suggest withdrawing from the alliance until a time when they conform to morals CLOSER (not exact) to that of GADURIDOS (not my party) We may keep a trade agreement but alter it to make it more beneficial to them, ie more electronics for diamonds so the trade is fair and we are not 'ripping them off'. As far as defensive matters go, we should fid another ally, I do not know who but we can find one. We do not even need an alliance maybe. I do not have a vendetta as I speak in regard to a treaty, NOT invasion, or forcing them to adopt our policies, or dictating terms to them. I am NOT XENOPHOBIC, I have oft stated the reason for this is because of moral issues not a fear of other nation. If you can grasp that then good. And I am not saying cast them off just a redefination of our relationship. I believe these are fair proposals and do not infringe on any issues regarding iternal Deltarian matters. If you think moral reasons are not reason enough you should reasses your policies, and think about how you reach decisions. You do not just represent the people in what has to be done, but what should be done. |
| Date | 18:02:07, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Bátory Dynastia | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Does it really feel moral to kick a country that's already down? Does it make you feel like a big man? |
| Date | 18:04:52, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | ''We are not limiting our allies, we can get NEW allies.' Once more YOU FAIL to address what I said. We can get MORE allies. We DO NOT need to REPLACE Deltaria. In fact, if you WERE to replace Deltaria, who do you suggest?! You wish to cast off those who have been good to us, as I stated, because of your own judgemental nature, your own prejudices and your own xenophobia.' This is why we feel the need to constantly draw these accusations. You fail to address the above point. In fact, we even went so far as to CAPITALISE most of it and request a direct addressal on NUMEROUS OCCASIONS throughout the debate on this issue. Your actions are shameful and yet... such evasion is a standard political tactic. It is just unfortunate as we expected better from your party. |
| Date | 18:08:16, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Bátory Dynastia | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | "You do not just represent the people in what has to be done, but what should be done." Are you saying that what you feel Deltaria SHOULD be like takes precedent over the very real and non-ambigious conditions we face daily? If we COULD liberalise the country we would. Do you think we LIKE being laughed at by the other nations? Do you think we don't hear the jokes you people make about us? About our standards of living, about our justice system, about our economy? Do you think it doesn't hurt us? It's very easy to criticise, isn't it??? Very VERY easy, but when it comes to making an actual difference, when it comes to HELPING the people you claim you're standing for, what do you do? You sit there with your thumbs in your asses looking stupid, or even worse, you attempt to actively damage what Deltaria has spent so many decades building up. You say we should downgrade our military in favour of education and heath care, whilst attempting to remove the informal Gaduri military backing we recieve. You claim you're trying to help us up, but your words don't match up with your actions ; forcing us down. You sicken me! You're nothing more than a greedy selfrighteous racist bigoted animal, and this entire bill is nothing more than a cheap ploy to revert Deltaria to the stone age so you can take your pickings of our natural resources and raw materials. You're a disgrace to your nation. |
| Date | 18:08:42, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | You even stated: 'lets not have an alliance or any sort of friendship with a state that is so different to our own.' There is no acceptance or understanding on your part... earlier you spoke of shared understanding and yet the Bill still passes with the above in the description. Your party is showing itself to be filled with filth and liars and I hope that your shameful actions are resoundingly deplored by the GOODLY people of Our Great Nation. Once more I state: 'You wish to cast off those who have been good to us, as I stated, because of your own judgemental nature, your own prejudices and your own xenophobia' Just look at the Bill description... just look at your quote for the sad proof of your Party and its immoral and deplorable stance. You are not even willing to settle for friendship... for shame... |
| Date | 18:10:35, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Bátory Dynastia | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | "You do not just represent the people in what has to be done, but what should be done." Are you saying that what you feel Deltaria SHOULD be like takes precedent over the very real and non-ambigious conditions we face daily? If we COULD liberalise the country we would. Do you think we LIKE being laughed at by the other nations? Do you think we don't hear the jokes you people make about us? About our standards of living, about our justice system, about our economy? Do you think it doesn't hurt us? It's very easy to criticise, isn't it??? Very VERY easy, but when it comes to making an actual difference, when it comes to HELPING the people you claim you're standing for, what do you do? You sit there with your thumbs in your asses looking stupid, or even worse, you attempt to actively damage what Deltaria has spent so many decades building up. You say we should downgrade our military in favour of education and heath care, whilst attempting to remove the informal Gaduri military backing we recieve. You claim you're trying to help us up, but your words don't match up with your actions ; forcing us down. You sicken me! You're nothing more than a greedy selfrighteous racist bigoted animal, and this entire bill is nothing more than a cheap ploy to revert Deltaria to the stone age so you can take your pickings of our natural resources and raw materials. You're a disgrace to your nation. |
| Date | 18:53:55, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Bátory Dynastia | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Sorry, double post. |
| Date | 20:16:32, December 06, 2005 CET | From | People's Progressive Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | For the record it seems that the squalor and poverty that the Deltarian people live in that their rulers use as an excuse for their behavior, is actually purposely imposed by those same rulers. The fact is, Gaduridos did not magically become prosperous with a good standard of living. Gaduridos built itself up, went through a war (Kalistan/Gaduridos Conflict) and constantly stood by the ideals expressed in its motto, "Unity, Freedom, Prosperity!" We've had our share of bad leaders, but we've never had a cabal that purposely ran our national living standards and citizenry into the ground simply to maintain power. We have never let religion choke our nation while depriving people of education. If the Deltarians want to get out of poverty they need to create policies that reflect that mission, not the unsuccessful path they are currently on. |
| Date | 20:20:42, December 06, 2005 CET | From | People's Progressive Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | And once again, the Deltarian regime also used nuclear weapons against its own people. On one hand, given that disregard for Human life and the environment shown by the power hungry regime, one can see why the Nationalist Party and the National Fascisti might want such ruthless types as friends rather than enemies, so as to have them not use those same nuclear weapons on us, however, is that in itself enough reason to get mixed up with such folk. I don't think so. |
| Date | 20:45:44, December 06, 2005 CET | From | People's Progressive Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Either way this arguement is a waste of time for us, we are a non-imperialist party and only believe in waging war in self-defense, therefore we don't feel there should be such a high demand for allies, especially imperialist ones, but thats just our opinion. |
| Date | 20:46:39, December 06, 2005 CET | From | People's Progressive Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Since this is not actually a bill we'll vote no. |
| Date | 20:56:54, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Bátory Dynastia | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | We refer you to what happened when somebody DID try to bring decent living standards to Deltaria. The Great Terror. A period of outright anarchy, in which many of our ancestors were lost in, and from which our nation has never fully recovered. And the days of using nuclear weapons against our own people are over ; we didn't even use them in the Deltarian/Lodamese Conflict. Deltaria is trying to progress, but the judgemental and ignorant many simply refuse to let us.We are not a power-hungry regime, we have simply been abused and decieved over and over again ; from the goodness of our hearts we sent peacekeepers to prevent Lodamun from falling into Anarchy, and the result was their declaration of war against us, despite commonplace approval of our presence. What will satisfy you? And once again ; we refer you to the fact that our government was voted in democratically. If you're so quick to judge us, explain why the Deltarian people support us. Explain how you know more of the precarious nature of Deltarian culture than they do. We understand Gaduridos has been through some hard times as well, but how can you ever expect to understand the soul of a Deltarian? You claim Gaduridos didn't magically turn into the Great Nation that it is, yet you somehow expect us to instantly rival yours? Gaduridos has never experienced the hardships Deltarians faced, and never will, yet they expect us to wash away 1800 years of blood simply because our methods of preventing anarchy offend their first-world sensibilities? From the time of the Great Landing our tribesmen blamed one another for the lack of the Promised Land they expected, and for almost two thousand years they have fueded, only in recent times has any kind of uneasy truce been proclaimed, and it is a truce that is constantly threatened by racially-motivated attacks, and suicidally idealistic notions from ignorant revolutionaries. Religion is a neccessary aspect of Deltarian life, it fosters contentment with what we are able to provide for the people, and it teaches love between the diverse ethnic groups of Deltaria. Education is a useless, dangerous and costly expense for us, useless as we are largely an agrarian nation, and dangerous because our nation is constantly seething with racial hatred. Whenever peasants are educated, whenever the literacy rates rise, they are constantly exposed to the illegally distributed mimeographed and often falsified pamphlets depicting the Alizandans massacres of the Doron Akigans, the Dissuwans massacres of the Daralis, the Tokundian practise of making bread from the blood of Ushalandan babies, and so on. And that is the viscous circle Deltarians are trapped in. After several generations of stable and consistent rule, this cycle may be broken, but not before. We are doing our best to turn ourselves into a progressive and civilised nation ; but for now that means State control over the incitement of racial violence, insurrection and rebellions. But tell me, you've made some excellent points on what a rancid squalid hellhole Deltaria is. I know that. I grew up there. You seem to take great pleasure in pointing out our inadequacies, and gloating over how much better you have it. You make points for wanting an alliance with us, but claim they're not enough... still, you haven't proposed a single rational point as to why you SHOULDN'T want to "get involved" with us, so we can only assume you share the Trax Party's irrational hatred of our people, our language, our culture, our beliefs.... Have you actually read the Axis Agreement? Do you see how minor the obligations contained therein are? What exactly are your reasons for not wanting peace and friendship between our nations? So far all I see is "The Deltarians are poor ; so lets not trade with them and make them even poorer". Again, I am forced to assume you and the other supporters of this bill are deliberately attempting to manipulate the Deltarian nation into anarchy so that you may exploit us further. Isn't the lot of a Deltarian miserable enough for you as it is? Aren't our diamonds soaked in enough blood, our oil laced with enough ashes? What will it take to satisfy you greedy, imperialistic blood-merchants? How many more of our souls do you need on your consciences before you have enough pretty diamond necklaces and bracelets to satisfy your lust for material possessions? |
| Date | 21:11:09, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Final mission of the act: That due to the matters mentioned we do not enter the formal alliance treaty composed by the Deltarian government called the Axis (Alliance), when it comes to vote the foriegn minister will not even bring it to senate as a resukt of this act. |
| Date | 21:11:13, December 06, 2005 CET | From | United Soviet Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | This may make no differnece in the long run but we will stand by our friends in the Trax aprty and agreeewith them that Deltaria is unstable and not someone we want a nation such as ours to have connections with. |
| Date | 21:11:14, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Final mission of the act: That due to the matters mentioned we do not enter the formal alliance treaty composed by the Deltarian government called the Axis (Alliance), when it comes to vote the foriegn minister will not even bring it to senate as a result of this act. |
| Date | 21:25:43, December 06, 2005 CET | From | People's Progressive Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | The fact that the Bátory-Nádady Dynastia is so quick to accuse us of racism after leveling every excuse it could find in its nation's history for its current behavior is a good example of what happens when a government feels education is "useless". Its really a collection of ignorant copouts combined with finger pointing. We have nothing against your cultural or your policies so long as they don't harm us, it is your public's responsibility to hold your regime accountable. We simply don't appreciate your complaining about how we should accept you the way you are as allies because of your interpretation of your own history, the objectivity of which is debateable. We expressed our rejection to you as allies ever since your use of nuclear weapons so please don't scream and shout racism when that has never been this party's motive as our record shows. If this bill is a referendum on whether the alliance should exist or not, we'll vote yes because we do not favor any binding alliance at this time. |
| Date | 21:51:56, December 06, 2005 CET | From | Progressive Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | The Progressive Imperial Party feels that, despite our differences, the Deltarians have done NOTHING against us, and as such, we feel no need to support a move that would threaten our presently cordial relationship. |
| Date | 05:44:20, December 07, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | 'Final mission of the act: That due to the matters mentioned we do not enter the formal alliance treaty composed by the Deltarian government called the Axis (Alliance), when it comes to vote the foriegn minister will not even bring it to senate as a resukt of this act.' You are NOT the foreign minister. Do NOT be so presumptuous. |
| Date | 09:23:14, December 07, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | I have the right to ask for a referendum on whether this country is taken into an alliance treaty before before that treaty is presented. And I will engage this right. |
| Date | 09:23:26, December 07, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | I have the right to ask for a referendum on whether this country is taken into an alliance treaty, before that treaty is presented. And I will engage this right. |
| Date | 10:11:47, December 07, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | Ask away. You stated, however, that the Foreign Minister WILL NOT bring the treaty to vote, so silence yourself, fool. A) This act has yet to pass B) You are NOT the Foreign Minister Know your role. |
| Date | 12:22:40, December 07, 2005 CET | From | Traxian Imperial Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | I am not dictating, a referendum is a vte to decide is we even contemplate a treaty or not . So IF the bill is sucessful (not likely at moment but I did what I think was best in a democratic way) then the treaty will not be brought frward because that is the puropse of this bill. |
| Date | 19:22:27, December 07, 2005 CET | From | People's Progressive Party | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | It'd be wise for the Nationalists to tone down their rhetoric against their own people. For a "nationalist" party you are too quick to insult and attempt to shame your fellow Gaduridosians in the Trax Party over another nation. And the Trax should not have to know their role any more than you do. |
| Date | 13:01:36, December 08, 2005 CET | From | Nationalist Party of Gaduridos | To | Debating the Deltarian Act |
| Message | They DO need to know their role when they presume to speak out of turn. I have defended the Trax Party on the international stage, as the above links will show, however, when it comes to the Gaduri, we are allowed to disagree and reprimand when one speaks out of turn. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 196 | |||||
| no | Total Seats: 245 | |||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
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| Random quote: "Political institutions are a superstructure resting on an economic foundation." - Vladimir Lenin |