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Bill: False Information Charge against House of Astredies - April 3339
Details
Submitted by[?]: Takanashi Clan
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This bill is a resolution. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: November 3340
Description[?]:
| Members of the Federal Council of Nobles of the Sovereign County of Beluzia, among the seats held by the Karav Dynasty and the Takanashi Clan, wish to make charge against the House of Astredies for the publication of false information: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=355149 As pointed out by Kristov II of the Karav Dynasty, there are multiple falsehood regarding the history of Leto Astredies, the founder of the House of Astredies. Upon further investigation, it is deemed that there are enough evidence against the House of Astredies, and thus by the name of Her Excellency, High Countess Aoi Takanashi and the Federal Council of Nobles, we hereby request representatives for the House of Astredies to testify concerning the charge filed against them, or they will be judged without representation. |
Proposals
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 18:40:04, July 24, 2012 CET | From |  Beluz Democratic Karavist Party | To | Debating the False Information Charge against House of Astredies - April 3339 |
| Message | We support this move, and we expect the same from the civilian government. |
| Date | 01:09:53, July 25, 2012 CET | From | House of Astredies | To | Debating the False Information Charge against House of Astredies - April 3339 |
| Message | These charges are absurd. I am sure that if you had searched for through any records than you would have discovered that Himmler Energy was a foreign based corporation that was granted a special exhibition to some of the local laws regarding private ownership. When our late patriarch was granted nobility it was a merely honorary title with no legal significance until it was extended by the Karavs. Our family chose to enter politics based much later based on the fact that our company was failing. Once the Karavs gave us Coleshire Mining we incorporated it into the rest of our properties. As for Coleshire being the only large cole company in Beluzia, well, I know our influence was shrinking but you would have to be blind to not notice our existence at all. You also claim that Beluzia did not have any private industry before your economic reforms in the 70's I will point you to your 75 regulation bill before you changed it all energy in Beluzia was provided by PRIVATE companies. You are lucky that my father considered you a freind as I would otherwise countersue you. - Paul Astredies |
| Date | 02:32:32, July 25, 2012 CET | From | Beluz Democratic Karavist Party | To | Debating the False Information Charge against House of Astredies - April 3339 |
| Message | Show us records of Himmler Energy, and show us the bill that authorised its operations in Beluzia. We would also like to know which specific country it is from. Coleshire Mining is a "coal" company, not a "cole" company. If the honorary title was of no significance, then it is neither "nobility" in a de facto sense, nor a de jure sense. What you're saying is that anyone could just declare themselves "King of Beluzia" and it is nobility, whether or not it's recognised - that is crap. Nobility is based on recognition itself. The only "private" coal company would actually have to be a contracted government agency. It could only be "private" in the sense that no-one can have shares in it, except for the person responsible for signing the contract on behalf of the labour force. The entire train system was government-owned, so legislation for a "private company" was just to allow the government to avoid concentrated bureaucracy by diverting record keeping elsewhere under a contract, which in itself is the compressed bureaucracy. We demand records showing that "Himmler Energy" was the name of the contacted force, which still could not have been the largets company, or really a "business" since it was regulated by authority of the government-owned train operating companies. Understand that you're referring to legislation, which is base de jure measure. Legislation is really about formalities, and under such legislation, private business is impractical. There was no competition, and everything was done to avoid bureaucracy. What we did was to bring de facto reforms - not about legislation or whatnot, but actually about what was happening. We abolished contradicting laws, and allowed private homes, private transport, and private rail networks. Before we did this, "private power companies" were just a government myth. |
| Date | 19:03:25, July 27, 2012 CET | From | House of Astredies | To | Debating the False Information Charge against House of Astredies - April 3339 |
| Message | Before these procceedings commence any further could you show me the legistlation that makes it illegal to lie about personal actions. Also Nobility used to be an honorary title given by the government it was left over from the remnants of a feudal system long before modern society. Also certain laws were overlooked if you paid the leading party a generous "campaign contribution." As for the home nation of Himmler Energy it is Solenta. As for the documents involving their permission they were lost during the Tactstov coup. |
| Date | 21:50:06, July 27, 2012 CET | From | Grand Liberal Party | To | Debating the False Information Charge against House of Astredies - April 3339 |
| Message | The Solentian government can confirm the testimony of the House of Astredies regarding the Solenitan background of the Himmler Energy Company. Helina Montgomery Foreign Minister of Solentia |
| Date | 06:56:16, July 28, 2012 CET | From | Beluz Democratic Karavist Party | To | Debating the False Information Charge against House of Astredies - April 3339 |
| Message | The charges have already been laid. We do not trust the Liberals of Solentia. They have disrespected Beluzia before, and they should not intervene in matters of nobility when they openly condemned such concepts in Solentia. They're likely only taking the side of the House of Astredies because they're not too friendly with the governing forces of Telamon. As for comments made by the House of Astredies on nobility; "government" has never had anything to do with it. We are not obligated to show legislation than bans "lies" per say. There are laws against the publication of false information. Even if those laws never existed, the federal council is the highest body of authority in the Union, and if it wants to charge you for being ugly, it can do it. |
| Date | 07:26:01, July 29, 2012 CET | From | House of Astredies | To | Debating the False Information Charge against House of Astredies - April 3339 |
| Message | It was not the High Court who charged me it was you! And you do have said obligation to show me the legality of your actions. SHOW ME THE BODY!! I have the right to knowledge of the charges against me and if there is no law stating such then this trial is a hoax and a mockery of the justice system! |
| Date | 13:37:04, July 29, 2012 CET | From | Beluz Democratic Karavist Party | To | Debating the False Information Charge against House of Astredies - April 3339 |
| Message | Cut your crap. What "High Court" ? The former High Countess proposed this bill. What good does it do for you to lie again? There doesn't need to be any law for us to charge you. Our decisions, as the federal council, are law. We stated why we're charging you, and 50 out of 99 nobles voted in favour of the charges. Less than 10% of the federal council voted against. There are laws against the publication of false information; your lies are endless. For other charges, it's whatever the federal council wants. Until the federal council votes to force me to show you "the body" of law, I don't need to. The federal council voted to pass the charges, and that is all that is necessary. "Law" is whatever the federal council says. There doesn't have to be existing law; we can pass a bill saying you're ugly and you owe us money and it becomes law. Look at you making a fool of yourself. You're worse than your father, and up to now I see no reason he should get a "national monument" in his honour. He had no honour and his history was more tied into Solentian propaganda than whatever he did in Beluzia, which I'm sure is irrelevant. The bill has already been passed; there is nothing to discuss. No matter how much you blab or try to kill us with your bad breath, the bill has already passed and there is nothing you can do about it. Have a problem? Make a new bill explaining the problem and set it to vote to see if it has the council's support. If it doesn't, then I urge you to shut the hell up. |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 50 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 9 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 40 |
| Random fact: Selucia is Particracy's modern take on Ancient Rome, located on the continent of Majatra. |
| Random quote: "Casting a vote shouldn't make you sick." - Ronnie Dugger |