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Bill: Federal Council Hearing on Astredies' Allegations
Details
Submitted by[?]: Beluz Democratic Karavist Party
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: August 3360
Description[?]:
| Solentian political entities have claimed the existence of a company called "Himmler Energy" which hard mining operations in Beluzia on such a large scale that it was the most prominent company in Beluzia's mining and energy sector. With political differences in the past, namely Solentia's ignorant cultural biases against Beluzia, how can we trust them? It can only be assumed that they are supporting the House of Astredies because of political ties. It's obvious that Paul and his cronies begged them to make up stories to avoid having the reputation of dishonesty. We are tired of allegations, and we want facts. We want direct evidence of the existence of Himmler Energy. It was claimed that records were destroyed in the Tackstov coup, but that is crap. The Tackstov coup was not violent, and only involved reformation of power structures. No records were affected. The Tackstov coup couldnt' possibly destroy all information on Himmler Energy; there has to be some form of records in Solentia. Members of the Karav dynasty strongly believe the members of the House of Astredies, and their international ties, are making up the entire story as they go along. This is unacceptable. We don't want to hear that Himmler Energy eventually fully moved to Beluzia, and then its records were destroyed here; it would be convenient to utter such a lie, but we have no time for it. We demand the members of the House of Astredies make real efforts to prove that Himmler Energy exists, or lose respect from the federal council. There are laws against libel, and the publication of false information, and honesty is not something strange to social etiquette. On behalf of the citizens of this union, Leto Astredies having been one, we have sued the House of Astredies for the publication of falsehoods against Leto. Members of the House of Astredies, despite being obvious liars, believe that they are being unfairly accused. -- If this bill is passed, the charges against the House of Astredies will remain in place, and Kristov III (of the Karav Dynasty) will pay 50,000 BEL on behalf of his father, Kristov II. Kristov II had privately accepted being charged for "abuse of rights" relating to the mistreatment of the members of the House of Astredies, and the situation in Stantonshire during the UFO sighting. He accepted the charges on behalf of cabinet ministers who would have been charged instead. Since he was in authority, the final blame should be pointed towards him, and he agreed. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change Parliamentary privilege.
Old value:: Members of the legislature are exempted from any civil or criminal liability for their speech or actions related with the performance of their duties during their term of office.
Current: Members of the legislature are exempted from any civil or criminal liability for their speech or actions, but this immunity can be overruled by a vote in the nation's legislative body.
Proposed: Members of the legislature are exempted from any civil or criminal liability for their speech or actions, but this immunity can be overruled by a vote in the nation's legislative body.
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 05:55:13, July 31, 2012 CET | From | House of Astredies | To | Debating the Federal Council Hearing on Astredies' Allegations |
| Message | Dear Karav I would like to point out that the word Allegation is defined as a claim or assertion that someone has done something illegal or wrong, typically without proof. I have yet to try to prove something as illegal so therefore I have not made any allegations as to anything. You also state that we do not have time for a defensive arguement. I believe I am entitled to due process. I also feel it strange that you believe that you can speak for the entire federal council and that you feel you have control of to whom they give respect to. Also you do not have the authority to subpoena records from Solentia and that is an issue you should take up with them not with me. I do however claim that during the political upset of the Tackstov coup that their were documents that were lost and possibly destroyed. OOC: Are you seriously claiming that the only businesses and corporations in Beluzia are the ones that have been documented in game? If so our people are in a desperate need of grocery stores. |
| Date | 06:18:02, July 31, 2012 CET | From |  Beluz Democratic Karavist Party | To | Debating the Federal Council Hearing on Astredies' Allegations |
| Message | "Allegation" doesn't always relate to something being "illegal" or being done in the wrong, as you claim. Allegations are claims without pre-existing empirical evidence. And allegation can be defined as: - an assertion made with little or no proof - an assertion made by a party in a legal proceeding, which the party then undertakes to prove - a statement offered as a plea, excuse, or justification Furthermore, you demand to be "entitled to due process" because you want more time to make up more crap. The Tackstov coup was not done with force, and it never involved records. It only involved land redistribution and a shift in the political system. Records were all preserved. Li Arvada, Former Prime Minister -- OOC: I don't claim that all the corporations and businesses are documented in-game. It is assumed than millions of SMALL businesses exist, but on your bill, you claimed that your company became "the wealthiest coal company in Beluzia" as a result of your character's involvement in it. Flawless characters make the game boring. My characters' backstories don't conflict with existing history, and the mentioned things add up. I didn't claim that my characters were granted nobility by an anti-nobility government, did I? |
| Date | 02:48:48, August 15, 2012 CET | From | House of Astredies | To | Debating the Federal Council Hearing on Astredies' Allegations |
| Message | The first usage of the word alleged was a misspelling of the word attested and it meant brought forth in court and in the legal sense of the word that is what it remains in all legal proceedings including this one. I can prove the Tackstov Coup was violent to the exact same degree you can prove it was nonviolent. Also I say I am entitled to due process because I am entitled to due process. |
| Date | 02:51:41, August 15, 2012 CET | From | House of Astredies | To | Debating the Federal Council Hearing on Astredies' Allegations |
| Message | OOC: At least I remain within the boundaries of the actual law. |
| Date | 03:01:13, August 15, 2012 CET | From | Beluz Democratic Karavist Party | To | Debating the Federal Council Hearing on Astredies' Allegations |
| Message | "Allegation" doesn't always relate to something being "illegal" or being done in the wrong, as you claim. Allegations are claims without pre-existing empirical evidence. The word is used in legal proceedings since legal proceedings demand the presentation of evidence. when eyewitness reports are made prior to the presentation of evidence, they are considered "allegations" until the time they are proven to be true. You can't prove anything because during the Tackstov coup, your family was a typical house of losers. Leto Astredies was a nobody. I never even knew his name until he signed it with a message in a debate. The Tackstov Coup was bloodless. No members of the legislature opposed it. It only consisted of a series of legislative changes, including major bureaucracy in a short span of time. OOC: I'm using RP protocols that apply to war. Since there was no opposition to the bill, war weariness factors and low morale don't count, so dissent is non-existent. If a party/house opposed the bill, then it could be considered, to that degree, that there was dissent. Since there was no opposition, and the bill got 100% support, the coup is more of something that took place with a hasty transfer of power through taboo legislation, rather than violence. Realistically, the coup could have almost only been non-violent, so to change all of what happened is somewhat god-moding, since I was there and I knew what happened, while you weren't there and you're trying to change everything in your mind. It's like claiming to be the largest coal company - you would have at least been recognised before, but Himmler Energy was completely unheard of before you made it up on a bill demanding a statue for one of Beluzia's most insignificant characters. |
| Date | 03:34:29, September 04, 2012 CET | From | Beluz Democratic Karavist Party | To | Debating the Federal Council Hearing on Astredies' Allegations |
| Message | My father accepted the charges for abuse of rights, on behalf of Ciktor Kozlov and Cyril Baker. Since my father is dead, and my mother is innocent, I will pay the 50,000 BEL fine, myself. Kristov III, Karav Patriarch |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||
| yes | Total Seats: 57 | |||
| no | Total Seats: 0 | |||
| abstain | Total Seats: 42 |
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