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Bill: Retirement Age Act, 2157
Details
Submitted by[?]: Liberal Imperialist Party
Status[?]: passed
Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.
Voting deadline: October 2158
Description[?]:
| In order to equip Rutania for future economic realities, we must keep our workforce producing for longer. As the population ages, the old must be able to keep producing, keep earning and keep paying towards their upkeep if we are to survive economically. |
Proposals
Article 1
Proposal[?] to change The professional retirement age.
Old value:: 67
Current: 64
Proposed: 70
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 00:27:39, December 19, 2005 CET | From | Radical Freedom Party | To | Debating the Retirement Age Act, 2157 |
| Message | We are strongly opposed to this legislation. The RFP is for a fair retirement age, and 67 is certainly fair. We are dismayed that the LIP feels we need to whip people into working until they are seventies. Enough is enough, at a certain point. We also have severe doubts about the utility of this proposal. Instead of having old people work longer this government should try better to get unemployed *young* people jobs! |
| Date | 09:48:00, December 19, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Retirement Age Act, 2157 |
| Message | A tired and out of date argument. In the coming years we will see fewer and fewer young people as a proportion of the population, and we need the economy to adapt to that. I hardly think that a 70 year old is considerable less able, as you allege, to do a job than a 67 year old, nor do I believe that that extra 3 years will make a serious difference to someone's quality of life. I do, on the other hand, know that 3 years' worth of extra people will greatly enhance our work force. |
| Date | 11:00:36, December 19, 2005 CET | From |  RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Retirement Age Act, 2157 |
| Message | Then you shoudl take a look at the statistics, the statistics clearly show that Rutania does not suffer from ageing. And the extra three years does make a serious difference, research has conclusively shown that the ageing process speeds up rapidly around that age. And those three years are not worth it, they will be much less productive and not at all motivated. And the mere fact that you even suggest that we need to increase the official retirement age in order to adapt to the economy is laughable, 67 is an official retirement age capable of adapting to the economy. If we had 65 as our official retirement age, and you proposed setting it at 67 "in order to adapt to the economy", I could have understood why. But 70 is just preposterous! |
| Date | 11:03:17, December 19, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Retirement Age Act, 2157 |
| Message | Another research has also shown another cause of the fact that people who work until they're 70 years old die much sooner, social contact. Research has shown that someone who retires around the age of 65 to 67 is still active in community life and can create a network of social contacts, whereas someone who retires around the age of 70 is worn out, chronically tired and too old to do so. That also makes a difference of about three to five years in their life expectancy. All you are asking the workforce to do now is to almost literally work till they drop dead. |
| Date | 19:43:36, December 19, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Retirement Age Act, 2157 |
| Message | "Then you shoudl take a look at the statistics, the statistics clearly show that Rutania does not suffer from ageing. And the extra three years does make a serious difference, research has conclusively shown that the ageing process speeds up rapidly around that age. And those three years are not worth it, they will be much less productive and not at all motivated." I already destroyed your statistics when you first posted them. Feel free to do so again, and I shall destroy them again. The fact is that they were just playing figures and did not show anything remotely useful at all. All they showed was that people who retired later did not live as many years after their retirement as people who retired earlier. This is obvious. Clearly someone who retires at 50 and dies at 75 will live 25 years after their retirement, whereas someone who dies AT THE SAME AGE but retires at 65 is only going to live 10 years. You statistics are rubbish, and your continuing faith in them smacks of stubborn refusal to admit your own defeat. |
| Date | 21:25:17, December 19, 2005 CET | From | Grand Republican Party | To | Debating the Retirement Age Act, 2157 |
| Message | The GRP i divided upon this issue. The first grouo argues that the LIP argument is sound; economic realities mean that age limits must be raised for the country to ensure its economic capabilities and its dominance. However, a second and persuasive grouping calls into question a breach of human rights that this limit would create, forcing people who may not want to work to do so merely to follow often questionable economic practices. They also call upo the LIP to answer; when does this end? Now 70, next, 75, then 80. When does this limit end? Something else must be done to stop this. |
| Date | 23:48:07, December 19, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Retirement Age Act, 2157 |
| Message | When I just said it would, at 70. If I wanted it to end at 75 or 80, I would have proposed those ages. There is nothing to suggest that this is the first step on a "slippery slope" - we have had a retirement age of 70 years for longer than we have had one of 67 years, and not once has anyone proposed putting it higher than 70. Besides, people who have private pensions (ie. everyone, if some legislation gets through in the next few days) can set when they want to retire in their pension plan without having it determined by the government. |
| Date | 09:59:48, December 20, 2005 CET | From | Freedom Party | To | Debating the Retirement Age Act, 2157 |
| Message | We agree with the arguments put forth by the Liberal Imperialist Party and laugh at the RSDP's attempts to use their statistics that were proven to be absolute rubbish |
| Date | 13:07:35, December 20, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Retirement Age Act, 2157 |
| Message | The LIP is talking utter bullshit: LOOK AT THE STATISTICS!!! There is no ageing problem in Rutania, for crying out loud! Economic realities say to to preserve a large consumer group, we must keep the current retirement age. Otherwise you are removing a very large and valuable consumer group from the economy and are hence destroying the economy rather than "saving" it. 67 is an age capable of dealing with the current worldwide economic reality, even if there were ageing! And once more, look at the statistics on Age Distribution, even the most stubborn capitalist will have to admit that ageing is not a problem and will not become a problem in the near and even the relatively distant future. |
| Date | 13:08:58, December 20, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Retirement Age Act, 2157 |
| Message | "However, a second and persuasive grouping calls into question a breach of human rights that this limit would create, forcing people who may not want to work to do so merely to follow often questionable economic practices." Indeed, all this would do in practice is FORCE people to work until they're 70 years old, because they otherwise won't get full pension and retirement benefits, and reduce their life expectancy by about 5 years. |
| Date | 13:10:18, December 20, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Retirement Age Act, 2157 |
| Message | "We agree with the arguments put forth by the Liberal Imperialist Party and laugh at the RSDP's attempts to use their statistics that were proven to be absolute rubbish" Our statistics, my dear colleague, have been compiled by the Rutanian Census Bureau, now either the Federal Government (read: the Capitalist Coalition) messed up big time, or they are absolutely correct. |
| Date | 13:10:52, December 20, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Retirement Age Act, 2157 |
| Message | *make that "or the statistics are absolutely correct." ;-) |
| Date | 15:32:52, December 20, 2005 CET | From | Liberal Imperialist Party | To | Debating the Retirement Age Act, 2157 |
| Message | "The LIP is talking utter bullshit: LOOK AT THE STATISTICS!!! There is no ageing problem in Rutania, for crying out loud! Economic realities say to to preserve a large consumer group, we must keep the current retirement age. Otherwise you are removing a very large and valuable consumer group from the economy and are hence destroying the economy rather than "saving" it." This doesnt make any sense. People retiring earlier means more pensions, which is more money SAVED, not SPENT. People in work means more people with a disposable income for longer, which means more money SPENT. "Our statistics, my dear colleague, have been compiled by the Rutanian Census Bureau, now either the Federal Government (read: the Capitalist Coalition) messed up big time, or they are absolutely correct." Your statistics were compiled by a shady health club in Florida. Stop making up crap. For anyone interested in the truth, take a look at these, they are Nation Discussion logs concerning RSDP's "evidence": http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewnation.php?nationid=6&offset=220&oldfirst=0#messages http://80.237.164.51/particracy/main/viewnation.php?nationid=6&offset=210&oldfirst=0#messages |
| Date | 17:34:46, December 21, 2005 CET | From | RSDP - Democratic Front | To | Debating the Retirement Age Act, 2157 |
| Message | "You really are a bloody fool, aren't you", stated a member of the RSDP's Parliamentary Groups, LOOK at the statistics. For crying out loud, we're not talking about those statistics!" |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | |||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 392 | |||||
| no |
Total Seats: 162 | |||||
| abstain |
Total Seats: 45 |
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