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Bill: Adoption Policy Reform Act

Details

Submitted by[?]: Hosian Action Coalition

Status[?]: defeated

Votes: This is an ordinary bill. It requires more yes votes than no votes. This bill will not pass any sooner than the deadline.

Voting deadline: November 3513

Description[?]:

The HAC believes it is better to restrict adoption of children firstly to individuals who have been thoroughly scrutinised and tested. We also believe that children should grow up raised in a conventional family in oder to increase the chances of them acting like conventional adults when they grow up.

Fr. Juan Maduro
HAC Secretary General

Proposals

Debate

These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:

Date18:42:47, July 10, 2013 CET
FromDrania Cívica 🏴 시민당
ToDebating the Adoption Policy Reform Act
MessageMr. Speaker,

For the longest time we have managed to move beyond these stupid and petty debates over social issues. We overcame the belligerence of Hosian parties which attempted to impose their social standards upon everyone else.

Here's the memo to the Hosian Action Coalition: the largest Hosian denomination composes a little under a quarter of the population.

There is absolutely zero reason, zero basis, and zero logic to forcing Hosian values upon our laws and upon the lives of our citizens. This is breach of the people's freedoms and an intrusion upon their own religious values, or lack of religious affiliation.

Alejandro Xi Marcelino, MP
KDF Chairman
Member for Elbian

Date19:14:54, July 10, 2013 CET
FromHosian Action Coalition
ToDebating the Adoption Policy Reform Act
MessageMr Speaker,

The HAC is a Hosian party indeed but we do not just represent Hosians, we represent all social conservative and moderate people who question the virtues of ultra social liberalism. Thus these are not just Hosian morals but are morals found all across Dranish society. I'm very sure that several Kyo people and other non Kyo supporters of the KDF subscribe to some of our social conservative beliefs along with some pagans, atheists and Daenists. There is not one bill where we have used the word Hosian to justify our beliefs and in fact, the HAC opposes the declaration of a state religion or any limitations on freedom of conscience/religion for reasons the Hon Member so eloquently laid out. Watch out though Mr Marcelino, given your party's embracing of social liberalism, your more conservative supporters might just elect to support a truly traditionalist party!

Fr. Juan Maduro
HAC Secretary General

Date19:54:54, July 10, 2013 CET
FromDrania Cívica 🏴 시민당
ToDebating the Adoption Policy Reform Act
MessageMr. Speaker,

I think it can be said with confidence that your reasoning to prohibit homosexuals from adoption and to restrict abortion are all based from Hosian religious texts and their talk of the "evils of homosexuals" and of "life beginning at conception." You are attempting to legislate with a basis on these Hosian religious laws.

Morals go well beyond homosexuality or abortion, and morals vary among people and groups. And the basis of morality is found from various sources.

Whether homosexuals adopt children or whether women get abortions, that has nothing to do with the day-to-day living and morals of the average citizen.

Your proposals are indeed Hosian morals. No other religious group in Dranland condemns homosexuality or makes claims about abortion. The only other faiths to take similar moral stances to your own are not even present in Dranland. You can claim all you like that your are presenting everyone's morals, but it is just simply not fact. There is a clear origination from the Hosian religion, and as I've said, there's a lot more to morals than what you are able to legislate.

Alejandro Xi Marcelino, MP
KDF Chairman
Member for Elbian

Date20:18:08, July 10, 2013 CET
FromHosian Action Coalition
ToDebating the Adoption Policy Reform Act
MessageMr Speaker,

Mr Marcelino is not telling the truth at all, nowhere did we speak of the 'evils of homosexuality', we do oppose adoption by homosexuals and single parents so it is unfair to paint as if we have some particular bias against homosexual people, we are merely biased against unconventional and New Age lifestyles and believe they are to blame for most of the social problems Dranland faces.

We also wish to state our belief that Mr Marcelino's baseless statements are merely electioneering coming from a party which has shown exceptional cynicism and flip floppery over the past few years (criticised by Mr Marcelino's own key allies) and now seeks to paint the HBC black in order to confuse moderate and conservative voters. At least with us, the voters will know exactly where we stand. Morals cannot be installed through legislation, agreed but it would hurt no one to at least try.

Fr. Juan Maduro
HAC Secretary General

Date21:10:52, July 10, 2013 CET
FromDrania Cívica 🏴 시민당
ToDebating the Adoption Policy Reform Act
MessageMr. Speaker,

I was referring to Hosian texts, not your comments, in regards to the "evils of homosexuality."

And it is you delivering baseless statements. I do not know where you find the basis for accusing our party of cynicism or "flip floppery." Over the past few years we have been working together with a centrist government; there has been no cynicism. The past few years were stable and prosperous.

And as for "flip floppery," again, you have no basis for this accusation. I don't know who these "key allies" are who are critics, and in general, I know of no flip-flopping by our party. All I can think is that you are distorting the reality that our president is economically liberal, while our party in parliament is much more left-leaning. That is not flip-flopping though; that is just simply a result of the fact that our party does contain factions. Of the largest factions, one is economically liberal and the other progressive. If anyone is going to confuse voters, it is your party constantly trying to label the KDF as having been some sort of conservative party, which we never have been.

Alejandro Xi Marcelino, MP
KDF Chairman
Member for Elbian

Date21:34:29, July 10, 2013 CET
FromHosian Action Coalition
ToDebating the Adoption Policy Reform Act
MessageMr Speaker,

Mr Marcelino ought to buy the newspaper more often, there is clear criticism of the KDF's general strategy from politician affiliated with KDF allied parties such as the RFR. Infact, it has become such an important issue that leadership elections in the ED and RFR saw this topic of KDF 'inconsistency' becoming contests largely about the alliance.

Nevertheless I have to say I now understand that out of control factions are behind the KDF's appearance of flip flopping and wish to make an apology to the KDF and especially the Hon. Mr Marcelino for accusing him of opportunism (amongst other things).My point on him being wrong accusing us of seeking to impose Hosian morals still stands, conservatism doesn't necessarily translate to Hosianism We even have a pagan Draddwyr party which shares the HAC's revulsion at things like abortion and look forward to working with them on this issue and others.

Fr. Juan Maduro
HAC Secretary General




Date23:15:52, July 10, 2013 CET
FromDraddwyr Cynghrair
ToDebating the Adoption Policy Reform Act
MessageMr. Speaker,

Mr. Maduro is correct. While we come from radically different backgrounds, Draddwyr pagans also believe that the adoption of children is an important process that must be taken more seriously than a "routine check-up." Giving an orphan a proper caring home should be our priority, not emptying Dranland's orphanages as fast as possible! Regardless of where our beliefs on morality originate, it is clear to many that we must work together to restore traditional Dranish values to our nation.

Gladys Rhys-Evans MP
Draddwyr Cynghrair Pennaeth
Member for Magadonia

Date00:59:14, July 11, 2013 CET
FromDrania Cívica 🏴 시민당
ToDebating the Adoption Policy Reform Act
MessageMr. Speaker,

The allied parties of the KDF are under new leadership, and they're new leadership is not affiliated or allied with our party. I recognize their criticism, and I expect their criticism. They are libertarians, we are not. This new leadership has shifted away from the coalition that formed President Park's cabinet. That coalition was given the confidence of the KDF, RFR, and ED. Under the previous leadership of RFR and ED, they wholeheartedly supported cooperation with Park. And in Parliament, we, like the RFR and ED, moderated our positions so to embrace and help the function of the centrist government.

Everything has changed. The RFR and ED have changed leadership and following next year's elections, the centrist coalition will be officially done. While the centrist government still rules, the leaderships of the RFR and ED have changed and are not aligned to the centrist government. These leaderships have criticized us in the KDF, and they've criticized their own members who were in the coalition as well. Any arguments about "inconsistency" have often focused on the centrist government not properly fulfilling the true libertarian ideology of RFR, for example. In general there is criticism all around between the soon to be former partners of the coalition government.

On your other point, just because one other faith has a common moral opposition to abortion and other issues does not validate your point. Hosianism also shares commonalities with Queranzariah and Yeudism. Obviously there are going to be some alignments in moral positions. But there are also dozens more religions which do not align in similarity to Hosianism; many of these are present in Dranland. Just because the Hosians and Draddwyr Pagans of Dranland have moral similarity still does not legitimize the forcing of a particular set of religious values upon everyone in a secular nation.

Alejandro Xi Marcelino, MP
KDF Chairman
Member for Elbian

Date01:25:31, July 11, 2013 CET
FromDemocratic Progressive Party
ToDebating the Adoption Policy Reform Act
MessageMr. Speaker, we feel that the current bill is anachronistic and incompatible with social progress and open-mindedness. Furthermore, there is no credible evidence to suggest that homosexuals are not just as capable as heterosexuals when it comes to raising children - or indeed anything else, for that matter.

Yuko Asukai MP
DPP Parliamentary Leader

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Voting

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Total Seats: 94

no
      

Total Seats: 305

abstain

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