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Bill: Cabinet Proposal of December 3773
Details
Submitted by[?]: Chann National Party (CNP)
Status[?]: defeated
Votes: This bill presents the formation of a cabinet. It requires more than half of the legislature to vote yes. Traditionally, parties in the proposal vote yes, others (the opposition) vote no. This bill will pass as soon as the required yes votes are in and all parties in the proposal have voted yes, or will be defeated if unsufficient votes are reached on the deadline.
Voting deadline: August 3774
Description[?]:
| I pray for the sake of unity and cooperation that the parties pass this proposal without deference to partisanship or partisan agendas. Solentia needs all the parties to unite in the shared governance of our nation. Sincerely, President MAO XIN FUWAN With some deference given to the SPP's requests, given that it is the larger party, I have made some modifications in line with long established traditions. MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS has long been a duty entrusted to the president and his party, as well as that of DEFENCE, since it is intricate to matters of foreign affairs. FINANCE & JUSTICE we have entrusted to the Freedom Party, which I have done in the past and they have fulfilled their duties admirably. The PRIME MINISTERSHIP I have entrusted to the SPP because they are the largest party and because they have my trust. The other cabinet positions are in line with the SPP's requests. |
Proposals
Article 1
As per the Constitution, the President chairs the cabinet.
Article 2
The responsibilites of Science and Technology will be conducted by the 
Communist Party of Solentia (CPS)
Article 3
The responsibilites of Food and Agriculture will be conducted by the Solentias People Party
Article 4
The responsibilites of Environment and Tourism will be conducted by the United Democratic Party
Article 5
The responsibilites of Trade and Industry will be conducted by the Solentias People Party
Article 6
The responsibilites of Foreign Affairs will be conducted by the Chann National Party (CNP)
Article 7
The responsibilites of Internal Affairs will be conducted by the Communist Party of Solentia (CPS)
Article 8
The responsibilites of Finance will be conducted by the Freedom Party
Article 9
The responsibilites of Defence will be conducted by the Chann National Party (CNP)
Article 10
The responsibilites of Justice will be conducted by the Freedom Party
Article 11
The responsibilites of Infrastructure and Transport will be conducted by the Communist Party of Solentia (CPS)
Article 12
The responsibilites of Health and Social Services will be conducted by the Communist Party of Solentia (CPS)
Article 13
The responsibilites of Education and Culture will be conducted by the United Democratic Party
Debate
These messages have been posted to debate on this bill:
| Date | 13:54:06, December 16, 2014 CET | From | Solentias People Party | To | Debating the Cabinet Proposal of December 3773 |
| Message | Honorable Mr.President. I have nothing but respect for your work. But this is getting out of hand. You gave me the mission to put together a cabinet. And i did, the cabinet i presented was a stable government with it's own majority and a clear political platform. But you answerd me in a message by condemning it and called it unconstitutional. You speak highly of our constitutional and democratic tradition. Then may i ask the following: Where is that tradition now when you give 4 out of 6 of the most important ministries to partys of the loosing coalition? Where was that tradition when you gave FP the ministries of Finance and Justice before they had ANY seats or votes? The cabinet you present here does not have ideological unity nor does it have any practical agreement. It would lead to internal fights between ministries, which would lead to an unstable government. This cabinet range from far-left to far-right. For instance the minister of Finance whom has the mission to put forward a budget lacks mandate. A majority is activly against FPs financial policys. They have put forward one budget so far in their parliamental history, it contained of radical tax and budget cuts. Not even your own party voted for it Mr.President. It's true that it's up to the president to propose a cabinet. But that cabinet must be supported by the parliament. Our constitution does not allow the president to veto legislations nor does it allow the president to push legislations without the support of the parliament. The cabinet must hold unity and stability. This just wont do in its current form. We are of course open for further discussion. |
| Date | 14:03:36, December 16, 2014 CET | From | Solentias People Party | To | Debating the Cabinet Proposal of December 3773 |
| Message | This is not me saying no to a grand coalition, we've agreed to it before. SPP was founded as a reaction to the parliamentary stalemate after the election in 3750, it's even in our by-laws that we will always do anything to make the country governable. But we must have a discussion. And it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that SPP do not agree with FP policys, and im sure FP ministers wouldn't be too thrilled about working under a marxist HoG. Oscar Lindman Chairman of SPP |
| Date | 23:01:43, December 16, 2014 CET | From | Chann National Party (CNP) | To | Debating the Cabinet Proposal of December 3773 |
| Message | If you read my initial request, it was not a mission to put together a cabinet, it was a request to forward to me your nominations for cabinet positions. As I stated in that correspondence: "It has been my policy to offer the Prime Ministership to the largest party in parliament. Please offer me your nominations for that office and any other cabinet office so that we can form a coalition government as soon as possible." In that language, there was not a delegated mission to form a cabinet only a request to offer your nominations for any offices. And I further reject SPP assertion that a cabinet needs ideological unity in order to govern. The parliament does not have ideological unity, yet it still governs. So too can a cabinet which is not ideologically united can also govern through negotiation and compromise. While I have not always agreed with the FP on all things, as I do not also agree with the SPP on all things, I have aspired to work with all regardless of ideological ascribement. And lastly, the SPP misreads my letter to them and confuses our exposition of the constitutional principle with its own personal disagreements over our compromise with the FP. Tradition and Constitutional principle in the President forming and proposing a cabinet, regardless of whether they have seats in the parliament or not, it is still the perogative of the president to propose such a cabinet if he so chooses and since the CNP had an OVERWHELMING mandate at that time, parliament had passed such a proposal. The SPP has taken too personally my letter, which came from a place of respect, and has aired a point made in respectful counsel into a public dispute. Sincerely, President Mao Xin Fuwan |
| Date | 00:34:00, December 17, 2014 CET | From | Solentias People Party | To | Debating the Cabinet Proposal of December 3773 |
| Message | So the president agree on that it's the parliament that holds the influence over the cabinet? CNP had majority and therefore they could apoint unelection ministers from FP if they so wished to? SPP/UDP/SDP have the same clear majority as of right now, how come the rules change when CNP is in opposition? I'm still awaiting an answer to why the loosing coalition is entitled to 4 out of 6 of the most important ministries. The parliament is the ruling organ. I would see it as only natural that CNP and FP made their own cabinet if they held the majority. The cabinet and the presidency is two diffrent things. The president represents the state, and is elected in a seperate election. Where the head of government is elected by and is the representative of the majority in the parliament. Thus making the HoG chief over the cabinet. The president cannot enforce his own will against the parliament, the constitution does not allow it. If he chooses to do so anyways, that would be nothing short of an abuse of power. It is true that it's the president mission to propose a cabinet, but it still has to pass a vote in the parliament. Thus making it more of a formality. If it truly was the presidents cabinet and not the prime ministers cabinet (As you mentioned) we would not have a prime miniser in the first place. The president would furfill that role, just like in the US. The presidency and the cabinet is two different things, they represent diffrent things. The president does not hold power over the parliament, and the parliament holds no power over the presidency since the parliament for instance cannot have a vote of misstrust against the president to force him/her to step down. Oscar Lindman Chairman of SPP |
| Date | 02:37:35, December 17, 2014 CET | From | Freedom Party | To | Debating the Cabinet Proposal of December 3773 |
| Message | The FP is willing to work with any Prime Minister as long as they are no bully. We understand that the cabinet proposal is full with ideological disagreements, but isn't that good for democracy? Anyway, the candidate of the FP for minister of Finance comes from the center-right faction of the Party so the SPP Prime Minister won't be dealing with any radical from the FP. The FP claims for collaboration of the SPP, the nation has just suffer a 2 years shutdown of the government, the best to do right now is to put the nation in order. |
| Date | 14:22:52, December 17, 2014 CET | From | Chann National Party (CNP) | To | Debating the Cabinet Proposal of December 3773 |
| Message | The SPP has lost my complete trust as they have maligned my words and have twisted them to fit their arguments. I will no longer work with the SPP and I return their title of "Son of Solentia" I would rather die without title than to receive such an award from a party with the tongue of a viper. SPP's understanding of the Constitution is still lacking when they say the President and HoG/Cabinet are two different things: Let us read the Constitution....http://classic.particracy.net/viewconstitution.php?nationid=42 Article 4: The Executive (1a) The executive power shall be vested in the President and the Cabinet. Unlike what the SPP proposes, the Cabinet is a part of the Executive branch which is headed and vested in the President, as (1b) states BELOW: (1b) The executive power belongs to the President, but shall be exercised by the Cabinet. The President shall not be subject to responsibility; the members of the Cabinet are responsible. (2) Executive decisions shall be entrusted in these bodies subject to the approval of the Parliament. And as Section 2 points out, I never said Parliament DIDN'T have influence of the cabinet since it is the parliament which VOTES on the PRESIDENT's proposal. Your knowledge of government is incomplete at best and seen only through partial lenses. What I have said all along is that 1) The President Proposes a cabinet, NOT the majority party and that 2) The CNP had a parliamentary majority and supported the President's cabinet years ago. Never have I said that the parliamentary has NO influence. Article 7: Formation of Cabinet (1) There shall be a Cabinet to assist the Head of State in the proper discharge of executive powers. (1b) There shall be a Cabinet to exercise the executive powers on behalf of the Head of State. (2) Any cabinet must be ratified by the agreement of more than a half of the Parliament, according to Article 3 of the Constitution. (3a) It is the exclusive responsibility of the President to propose a list of Cabinet members to assist him. (3b) It is the exclusive responsibility of the political party holding the greatest number of seats in the Parliament to propose a list of Cabinet ministers to assist the President, save that if more than one political party holds the greatest number of seats, that number being equal for all such parties, any or all of these may propose a list. (3c) The responsibility of proposing a list of Cabinet members falls to political parties, any or all of whom may propose lists to assist the President in the running of the country. (4a) Until such a time as a cabinet is formed, the President will hold executive power alone, subject to the agreement of the Parliament, according to article 3 of the Constitution. (4b) A cabinet will continue to assist the President, even if a new President is elected, until a different Cabinet is ratified. (4c) The Cabinet shall remain in office until such a time as a new Cabinet is formed. What I was merely stating was protocol as established by the Constitution. |
| Date | 15:01:55, December 17, 2014 CET | From | Solentias People Party | To | Debating the Cabinet Proposal of December 3773 |
| Message | "I would rather die without title than to receive such an award from a party with the tongue of a viper. " You honor me with your words Mr.President. You're more popular than your party. The people has spoken and they want to see a SPP/UDP/SDP government. So until that is fulfilled by the honorable Mr.Fuwan there will be no new cabinets. Oscar Lindman Chairman of SPP |
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Voting
| Vote | Seats | ||||
| yes |
Total Seats: 105 | ||||
| no |
Total Seats: 120 | ||||
| abstain | Total Seats: 0 |
| Random fact: Real-life quotations may be used in Particracy, but the real-life speaker or author should always be referenced in an OOC (out-of-character) note alongside the quotation. |
| Random quote: "We had no domestic attacks under Bush." - Rudy Giuliani |